627 vs 929

[DavidSnethkamp]

Greetings all,

I am hoping to gain some advice on my current revolver dilema.

Currently I shoot a 625 PC (4") and have about 20k rounds thru it. I am very pleased with the performance and it is serving me well as I get more experience.

When the 929 showed up, my initial reaction, was "now there is a reason to go 8-minor" but now I have different thoughts.

At first I swore I would stay with 6-major, but sooooo many 4 target arrays really got me thinking more about 8-minor.

I am seriously considering a 627 pro instead (4") and was hoping to gather sage advice one way or the other.

Here are my thoughts:

I have tried a 5" 625 and the gun felt very "heavy" to me. the longer 929 really concerns me in this regard. I figured if the 625 recoil does not bother me, the 38's in the same barrel at minor PF won't.

Using factory 9mm is not really an issue, since I don't remember the last time I have used it. In a pinch I figure I could always use factory 38's in the 627.

The short colts sound like a great way to go with the 627 for speed in loading and extracting.

My goal for the revolver use is 99% USPSA

It seems from a reloading standpoint, the cost difference between the 38 short colt and 9mm is negligable.

I am completely unsure of the accuracy and the ballistics of the short colts and would love to here peoples opinion and perhaps their favorite minor loads.

Since the 627 pro is factory moon clip cut, that is not an issue and the "pc trigger" really means nothing since any gun goes the my gunsmith to get set up the way I like it.

I can get the 627 pro for about $830 in my area and 300 or 400 would go a long way towards brass and moon clips.

I would appreciate your sage advice.

Thanks

David

[Ty Hamby]

My opinion will be short and swift.

In USPSA the name of the game is speed. Get the longest barrel you can start and stop the quickest. The 5" 627 slab side gives you the longer sight radius, allowing you to be sloppier on the sights without degrading accuracy. The 5" also has no cylinder latch on the tip of the ejector rod, It uses a ball/crane lockup. This ensures an ejector rod slightly out of round will not cause a drag, which translates to a potentially smoother trigger. The PC hammer (5" 627) vs. MiM hammer (4" 627) is a non-issue if you are replacing it or not. Bobbed type hammers know not how they were born. The PC hammer in the 5" will have the guts (small parts) you need if you are replacing with an apex hammer.

The 929 is a big unknown.

I am only recently improving my shooting using 6.5" barrels. The transition to a 6.5" barrel was like taking 3 steps back. I shot till June 2013 with a 5" barrel. In July 2013 I switched to a 6.5" 627. It has been quite a learning experience. The swing (start and stop) , recoil management (sights rising out of sight picture), and trigger prep during the swing has required me to practically re-learn the platform. In hind sight the advantage of the longer sight radius does outweigh the disadvantages of it. However a shooter with impeccable trigger control and eyesight will find the 5" and 4" 627's manageable. I own a 4" and ditched it years ago for a longer gun.

While I have been mostly shooting ICORE, I do shoot monthly in L10 with my 8-shot revolvers for the past 2 years. I have never shot USPSA in revolver division. I look forward to trying Revolver division out come February 1st. even though I do on occasionally win L10 division 8 shots at a time.

Summary,

If buying used, get the 5" slab side 627. If you want to save a couple hundred bucks, wait till the 929's start hitting the stores and buy someone else's last year 627. If your faster mentally than you are on the sights, get a 6.5" barrel.

The 4" I am afraid will leave you with too many Charlie's due to its short sight radius. With the MSRP being equal on a new 5" 627 and the 6.5" 929, I would get the 929 assuming your upper strength is enough to swing the longer gun just as fast.

Like all shooting sports, the gun is only a small portion of the entire package.

Edited January 13, 2014 by Ty Hamby

[mikeAZ]

Same dilemma as you except I shoot LOT's of 9mm. I bought 2 ea. 38 spc. 627's and am loading the 38 short Colt with a 135 Billy bullet..... The only reason I can see for a change is it's a NEW toy and one less caliber to reload for.....These are going to be HARD to find I'm sure, especially being the "latest new toy"......I suppose there will be a whole new learning curve (moon clips, etc.)....I'll get in line.... Maybe the sky will open???....I don't see any major advantage over the short Colt...I shoot "open" with a red dot so the 929 will work fine.

Edited January 13, 2014 by mike NM

[DavidSnethkamp]

Great thoughts.

The 4" vs 5" is a real dilemma for me. It was really surprising running a stage, how sluggish I felt with the 5" gun. I am sure I would get used to it, but we do get comfortable, don't we?

[Flexmoney]

I bought a 4in Pro. I don't foresee the sight radius as being an issue.

[DavidSnethkamp]

Very true, and I am thinking the 4" 627 would have the same feel and balance of my 4" 625.

Show up at a match, walk around a bit and then decide which to declare, 8-minor or 6-major based on the stages.

In theory, switching back and forth would be pretty seamless ................. I think, LOL

[Carmoney]

Yeah......I know it seems that the difference between 4" and 5" is not enough to matter, but for whatever reason it seems to matter. Not totally sure if it's the sight radius, the bit of extra weight, the slightly more muzzle-heavy balance, or what.

Back when we were pretty much all shooting 5" 625s at Nationals, Keith Ulfers was pretty much the lone hold-out with his 4" gun. But eventually even Keith gave up on the 4" tube and went with the 5" 625.

In the 6-shot .45 ACP format, I personally find the 6.5" regular barrel to handle about the same as the 5" full underlug guns.

In the 8-shot .38 format, I can't really tell much difference in handling between my 5" slad-sided 627PC and my 6.5" skinny-barreled 27-7.

[DavidSnethkamp]

Anyone have load advice?

I currently stock in quantity Clays and Autocomp, but also have some W231.

Bullet wise I usually use Montana Gold and Ibejiheads.

I thought the 160 RN Ibjis might make up an interesting load

The goal is to set up a load for short colt. Looking at many of the reloading data tables, I see the loads will not make minor but I am guessing the case pressure is based on older guns. I am guessing with a 627 I could push the pressure much higher, safely?

[Gregg K]

Since you are looking at the dollar difference between the 6 and 8 shot platforms, remember the moon clips. HearthCo moon clips are mandatory to be competitive with an 8 shot where the 625 any decent moon clip like Ranch Products will load just fine. 50 HearthCo clips for the 8 shot will run $325 where 50 Ranch clips for the 625 will run about $20 last I saw.

I don't think that any of the PC guns come with forged hammers anymore so there would not be that difference between the 4" Pro and the 5" PC 627.

[Flexmoney]

Just search a bit for loading advice. It is suppose to be in the reloading section, but some has filtered into the Revolver forum...without the Mods catching it yet.

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I don't have the experience of Mike or some of the other top Revolver shooters in USPSA, but after 12 years of banging away, I would offer these thoughts.

I have two 625 5" and two 25 61/2" in 45 and both sets of firearms will shoot almost identical. The extra length on the 25's seems to make the balance in my hand feel the same as the 625's. I think the extra length on the 929 with the Titanium cylinder will make this gun a little muzzle heavy, but with 9mm loaded at about a 130-135 pf it will feel like a .22.

I have a M-14 with an 8 3/8" barrel cut for moons and shooting 125's at 135 is like a .22. I have used this firearm in both USPSA and ICORE with no problem other than the minor scoring in USPSA.

[Cd662]

8 3/8 is pretty dope, do you have a custom holster for that?

[MWP]

Since you are looking at the dollar difference between the 6 and 8 shot platforms, remember the moon clips. HearthCo moon clips are mandatory to be competitive with an 8 shot where the 625 any decent moon clip like Ranch Products will load just fine. 50 HearthCo clips for the 8 shot will run $325 where 50 Ranch clips for the 625 will run about $20 last I saw.

Now there is a $ difference between 627 and 625 clips, but if starting from scratch, the difference in cheaper 158gr vs 230gr bullets will make up the moonclip cost in only a few months. Edited January 14, 2014 by MWP

[seanc]

I bought a 4in Pro. I don't foresee the sight radius as being an issue.

Delete, thought we were talking 625 Edited January 14, 2014 by seanc

[hopalong]

If you really want to find out. Buy one of all, and test until you have an answer for yourself. Until then all you get are other peoples personal likes.

Don't want to sound harsh, but shooting handguns revolvers especially is pretty much what suits you.

Hop

edit for spelling

Edited January 16, 2014 by hopalong

[DavidSnethkamp]

Well, I figured I would check back in.

I went ahead and picked up a 627 pro. I figure if the 4" becomes an issue, it's just a great reason to buy another revo )))

I am currently working up 38 short colt loads and sorting thru bullet diameters.

Currently working with blue bullets at .357 with pretty good luck, but will experiment with it.

The daily shooters are now:

625

627

617

I am making sure they all get enough rounds so they don't get jealous of each other, LOL.

NOW, do I switch to 8-minor for the Florida Open or stay with 6-major.

I SOOOOOO want to see the stages posted.

[Cd662]

Ideally, bring both guns with you.

[DavidSnethkamp]

If I can get my loads chrono'ed to make sure they make minor, I think I will take both and decide there.

I decided to basically go with my 9 minor load, so I changed only the shell plate and sizing die in my press.

short colt brass sized with a 38 die

124 gr blue bullets (.357) CN (might switch to 125 gr RN blue bullets)

4.3 gr autocomp

taper crimp with the 9mm die

[TGO]

I bought a 4in Pro. I don't foresee the sight radius as being an issue.

I agree, oddly enough!!

There is lots of interesting discussion on this whole " will you want a 9" issue here. That's fine but the whole weight and barrel length discussion is excited speculation before we get them. I believe this. The 9 is going to be so much better than the .38 short colt/special that it wont be funny. It's going to shoot better, much better than sc. It's gonna eject better, much better. If it matters, the brass comes out a 9, not a short rimless .38 super. This opinion is based on both my experience of many years using nothing but 9 brass in my .38 super cylinders, holding the 929 at the SHOT Show, talking to Jerry about the whole thing, talking to the smith PC people there and shooting the 986 at the media day.

986 has exact same dimensions except 7 instead of 8 holes in cylinder and shorter barrel, ejects and fires factory 9 ammo, shoots about 1.5 inches standing in my hands with all things stock at 20ish yards, and was able to hit a 100 yard full silhouette at 100 yards. Wished the barrel was longer and it was heavier.

The 929 barrel is exactly the same profile as the 627 .38 super, just longer, cylinder is same length as 627 super, except Ti and fluted.

No one is gonna agree on what barrel length is best, but your not gonna care. The gun ain't too heavy. Sight radius is good.

9 brass will not over expand like short colt does in a .38/.357 chamber and stick. If you want shporter brass, cut special or .357. it is the right diameter, not weak as a baby in the web area.

Wish I new how to post the photo of me holding them at the shot show. I'm not quite the comp geek :-)

Everything is better about 9 compared to .38/.357 for USPSA/ICORE. Everything except accuracy of special or .357 length brass in the 627.

No factory .38 special ammo you are likely to find actually makes minor. Almost all 9 does.

9 is still the cheapest ammo.

New dimensions will shoot wider variety of bullets. You may just be able to shoot what you can get instead of what wished you could get.

I don't work for S&W, but this is the coolest revolver they have ever made. In like the whole of forever!!!

When we finally get them, it's gonna be like carbon fiber compared to aluminum. .38 super to the .45 in 1984. The scope to the iron sights.

Sure the old stuff is good, just not as good.

You're all gonna see.....

BTW, I hear Jerry has his........ :-(((

Edited January 27, 2014 by TGO

[Carmoney]

I'm excited about the 929, and I think it's great for the game!

I'm having a hard time imagining how it's going to out-perform my 627-5 and 27-7 with Short Colts. I have never experienced sticky extraction, accuracy issues, or any other problems with my 627-5 and 27-7. But I have no doubt that the 929 will be every bit as good, and I will graciously allow myself to be corrected and will jump right on the bandwagon if there turns out to be an advantage to the 929 platform.

[Gregg K]

I'm excited about the 929, and I think it's great for the game!

I'm having a hard time imagining how it's going to out-perform my 627-5 and 27-7 with Short Colts. I have never experienced sticky extraction, accuracy issues, or any other problems with my 627-5 and 27-7. But I have no doubt that the 929 will be every bit as good, and I will graciously allow myself to be corrected and will jump right on the bandwagon if there turns out to be an advantage to the 929 platform.

Same here. I have no ejection or accuracy issues with short colt. I like the profile of the 929 and suspect it will handle the same as my current 627 setup with a long barrel and Ti cylinder. I could care less about the 9mm aspect of the 929, I like a light trigger so I'm not going to shoot factory ammo anyway. The 929 looks good and I'm sure I will like the way it handles. What it does have that my current setup does not is a 1 in 10 twist barrel that will allow the use of a wider variety of bullet weights. Only some testing will tell me if that will make any real difference. I am used to my current load but would keep an open mind about trying other combinations if I had a barrel that would shoot them well.

Hey Rob, are you trying to get an early delivery?

[ZackJones]

Wish I new how to post the photo of me holding them at the shot show. I'm not quite the comp geek :-)

WOW a chance for a D-class shooter to teach TGO something

When replying click the button on the bottom right that says "More Reply Options" the larger editor window loads look down at the bottom left and you'll see Attach Files and below that a button that says Choose File. Click the choose file button.

Browse to the file you want to attach and select it. and that dialog box will close after you've selected the file.

Now there's the important step that messes people up. Below the Choose File button you'll see a button that says "Attach This File" you must click that to actually add the file. Once you click it the file will be uploaded and you're good to go.

[underlug]

Wish I new how to post the photo of me holding them at the shot show. I'm not quite the comp geek :-)

WOW a chance for a D-class shooter to teach TGO something

When replying click the button on the bottom right that says "More Reply Options" the larger editor window loads look down at the bottom left and you'll see Attach Files and below that a button that says Choose File. Click the choose file button.

Browse to the file you want to attach and select it. and that dialog box will close after you've selected the file.

Now there's the important step that messes people up. Below the Choose File button you'll see a button that says "Attach This File" you must click that to actually add the file. Once you click it the file will be uploaded and you're good to go.

Bet TGO does it faster

[DavidSnethkamp]

The current family.

Pappa Bear, Mama Bear, and Baby Bear.

[pskys2]

Just what I was afraid of. Open up Revolver Division to 8 shots and it becomes an equipment race. AND I just bought, well last summer, a 627 and all the extras to use it. Had a perfectly good 625.......Next thing you know I'll have to wait in line to shoot my Revolvers!

Wait, isn't this what I originally joined for in 1978???

I'm Luvin' it!