Does 3 gun need a governing body?

[BigLucky]

3 Gun has no need for a ruling body. A majority of major outlaw 3 gun matches use a variation of similar rules (either SMM3G or Andy Horner rules). Made for TV matches hasn't been positive for 99.9% of 3 Gun shooters. I think we will find a push back to grass roots and way from the TV guys in the coming years. Just my prediction.

There have always been prize tables.. they ebb and flow based upon the state of the firearms industry and how overall sales numbers are looking. Prize tables come out of marketing budgets, when times are tough, that is the first budget to be cut.

[bigbrowndog]

I think we will find a push back to grass roots and way from the TV guys in the coming years,........................ Geez I hope so Kurt. I think the TV mentality has pretty much killed good quality multigun events.

trapr

[Vlad]

[bmiller]

????

[Sterling White]

'A needs a B like a C needs a D'

[gose]

3 Gun has no need for a ruling body. A majority of major outlaw 3 gun matches use a variation of similar rules (either SMM3G or Andy Horner rules). Made for TV matches hasn't been positive for 99.9% of 3 Gun shooters. I think we will find a push back to grass roots and way from the TV guys in the coming years. Just my prediction.

There have always been prize tables.. they ebb and flow based upon the state of the firearms industry and how overall sales numbers are looking. Prize tables come out of marketing budgets, when times are tough, that is the first budget to be cut.

Take a look at some of the latest numbers from the gun industry, like Colt and S&W, both announcing 20-25% drop in sales last quarter with earnings down 50-75%.

Unless sales pick up, expect to see acquisitions, mergers and restructuring within a not too distant future.

I have a feeling prize tables are going to look a little emptier next year, but I hope I'm wrong...

Edited September 25, 2014 by gose

[Jaycwebb]

3 Gun has no need for a ruling body. A majority of major outlaw 3 gun matches use a variation of similar rules (either SMM3G or Andy Horner rules). Made for TV matches hasn't been positive for 99.9% of 3 Gun shooters. I think we will find a push back to grass roots and way from the TV guys in the coming years. Just my prediction.

There have always been prize tables.. they ebb and flow based upon the state of the firearms industry and how overall sales numbers are looking. Prize tables come out of marketing budgets, when times are tough, that is the first budget to be cut.

/Sarcasm/

Becasue if there's one thing a growing sport needs, it's less coverage in the media that makes it harder for new players to learn about and start enjoying the sport.

The "3GN" idea of promoting and popularizing shooting sports is what's going to carry these sports into the next 20 years. A fuddish "keep out" mentality will kill it. Just my honest opinion.

I've only started competitive shooting over the last 8 months or so. I've never seen a game so hard to hard information about. Unless a new shooter has someone who already shoots matches/ knows about these forums it's really difficult to get into this sport.

[Wild Gene]

My only thought was also how difficult it is to find out about matches. I am finding it is about a 1 year lag to sort of know what is going on, and that is only because I have friends that are very involved in 3Gun. On the other hand, that may not be all bad, considering how tough it is to get into our own Regional USPSA shoot if you find out you are free last minute.

wg

[kurtm]

Might I ask how on earth you guys think this 3-gun ever started....it was even before the inter-web. All you guys act like this is a brand new thing. IT ISN'T. There have been multiple major 3-gun matches since 2000. How on earth has it grown without 3-gun nation? You all act like it was invented by them or at least dying because no one knew about it, but I can assure you they have all been filling to capacity Plus since the dark ages. Just because you guys don't know how to find info without the web doesn't mean everyone does.

[Lead-Head]

3GN was pretty intoxicating the first couple of seasons.

My biggest regret is that few of the new shooters will get to shoot matches they was they used to be, and neither will I.

But the sport changes, as it always has. And everyone will argue about it, like they always have. Never boring.

There are great matches still out there...with old school MDs who will make sure total time scoring, targets w/o heads, and focusing on 10 shooters rather than making sure the other 250 are completely satisfied, will never happen at their match.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Lead-Head

[Jaycwebb]

Might I ask how on earth you guys think this 3-gun ever started....it was even before the inter-web. All you guys act like this is a brand new thing. IT ISN'T. There have been multiple major 3-gun matches since 2000. How on earth has it grown without 3-gun nation? You all act like it was invented by them or at least dying because no one knew about it, but I can assure you they have all been filling to capacity Plus since the dark ages. Just because you guys don't know how to find info without the web doesn't mean everyone does.

I think it got started by a bunch of posters being posted at gun shows. It seems like a lot of people would like to keep it that way.

Here's a great example; uspsa nationals are going on right now. Where's the coverage? Oh right, it's on some guys photo blog. Uspsa themselves haven't posted jack. Here's a bigger one: can anyone post a link on the uspsa website that even tells you HOW you qualify to shoot the event?

You say these events have been filling to capacity for years? I believe you. I think current capacity is low, needs to grow, and there's thousands of potential shooters out there who would love this sport if it just were promoted more.

Edit: when I say capacity needs to grow I don't mean event size. I realize that events have a logistic cap and were there already. I'm referring to the fact that this sport could support more events.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Jaycwebb

[kurtm]

Nationals are full to the brim. It seems your info WA is weak!

3-gun matches fill to the max Plus...who knew? Is that on the inter-web?

You can pine away about there needs to be more, more, MORE!! But who is going to step up and VOLUNTEER to put it on? Where do you get the staff, and more importantly the big range complex to host it?? We are trying/ hoping/demanding to have MORE from a finite supply....unless YOU are going to step up, on your large range and host a big match. Most match producers are getting old. Outside of a very few they aren't being "replaced" at the rate YOU want the sort to grow! I used to do Two big matches a year, plus shoot a bunch of other matches. Now I just shoot. I got tired of putting them on for less than a thank you. Every "New guy" knew how to do my matches better, and yet when it was time to work was never to be found. So now we have less matches because I got burnt out as did my partner because the new " more, more, MORE" crowd never steps up to help. You want MORE! GIVE MORE!!! I can count on one hand those that have!!!

Edited September 26, 2014 by kurtm

[Stlhead]

How does a governing body increase the number of ranges available to host matches? How does any idea posed in this discussion improve on the shooting experience of any of us. If you participate in the sport long enough, and do your share of volunteering, you will eventually tire of eating the shit sandwich. But unless someone eats it, we don't get to play. Best hope that those that get a belly full take a break, and come back hungry later, or all of this clamor for more will be clamoring for some, because it seems to me we are on the verge of a reduction of the number of good matches in the near future.

[oak hill]

For your reading pleasure:

Though in time we may laud their boldness and radical qualities, in their day most progressive dreamers are seen as permissive, wild-eyed extremists.
I came across a rather remarkable letter purportedly written over one hundred and fifty years ago by Martin Van Buren to President Andrew Jackson. The contents? A strong, critical warning that the "evil" new railroads would disrupt business, boost unemployment, and weaken our nation's defense. Historians may debate the authenticity of this little epistle, but see if the underlying tone doesn't sound vaguely familiar.

January 31, 1829
To President Jackson:

The canal system of this country is being threatened by the spread of a new form of transportation known as "railroads." The federal government must preserve the canals for the following reasons:
One. If canal boats are supplanted by "railroads," serious unemployment will result. Captains, cooks, drivers, hostlers, repairmen and lock tenders will be left without means of livelihood, not to mention the numerous farmers now employed in growing hay for horses.
Two. Boat builders would suffer and towline, whip and harness makers would be left destitute.
Three. Canal boats are absolutely essential to the defense of the United States. In the event of the expected trouble with England, the Erie Canal would be the only means by which we could ever move the supplies so vital to waging modern war.
As you may well know, Mr. President, "railroad" carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of fifteen miles per hour by "engines" which, in addition to endangering life and limb of passengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to crops, scaring the livestock and frightening our women and children. The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such breakneck speed.

Martin Van Buren
Governor of New York

[kurtm]

I might take time to point out that 185 years ago skill at arms was still admired and dare I say demanded by the citizenry of the U.S. . Land that was unpopulated was easy to find. No one was continually trying to out right ban the main tools of our sport, let alone making firearms owners out to be a very low form of life. This sport will never be main stream. It won't be covered like even AAA high school football.

I have never said that I don't want the sport to grow, hell I was around when we only had one of these things a year. But lets set that aside for now. Lets look at the big matches being put on. Most real big major matches are well into their 10-15th year with the same core staff. When you show up to a big match are all the R.O.s young energetic " wild eyed dreamers"? NO!!! And that is the point! In the last 5 years we have lost 4 major matches. two due to land issues, two because no one stepped up to replace the burnt out staff. Unless your august governing body is willing to assign people from their organization to run these matches it isn't going to grow at the pace you feel is due.

I think it was said best by a "New" guy. As long as someone can hang a bunch of brake rotors up in field and charge us $300.00 to shoot at them, fill it up to the brim and then be told time and time again...BEST MATCH EVER. Nothing is going to change.

As for your posted 185 year old correspondents. How was anyone able to get information like that without A. The inter-web, and B. 3-Gun Nation? This sport was growing at a nice even pace without all the hype. All the hype has done is is increase the demand exponentially while not doing anything to help the supply. More, more, MORE. If we ever do get a governing body the first thing it should demand out of it's membership is you have to work 4 major matches BEFORE you can compete!!!

[bmiller]

If we ever do get a governing body the first thing it should demand out of it's membership is you have to work 4 major matches BEFORE you can compete!!!

Interesting idea, it would definitely help new people understand the game.

Edited September 26, 2014 by bmiller

[oak hill]

I too agree all participants should contribute in some way! Hey, we have to pay taxes for the privilege of living in the land of the free.

[kurtm]

Whadda ya, whadda ya, whadda ya. You don't have to pay taxes to live here! You only need to pay taxes if you work hard and succeed.

[J.Schmitt]

Whadda ya, whadda ya, whadda ya. You don't have to pay taxes to live here! You only need to pay taxes if you work hard and succeed.

Thats right. And I tell those douches that shout out that they pay my salary. "Sales tax don't count".

[kurtm]

:)

[Sterling White]

If you start at page one and read to the present it's like a visual cortex in an old Clint Eastwood movie.

[RiggerJJ]

I too agree all participants should contribute in some way! Hey, we have to pay taxes for the privilege of living in the land of the free.

Only 1/2 of us pay taxes, the rest live here for free...

[LoganbillJ]

I completely agree with having new shooters "pay their dues", before shooting a major match. It's exactly how I started. I have worked matches from the first day that I have started shooting 3-Gun. I RO all the local majors as well as host monthly matches at our range. As you said, It is a lot of work for not much of a thank you.

There is a severe lack of involvement from the younger crowd in the management side of this sport and its pretty sad. Hopefully that will change but it doesn't look good.

[Jaycwebb]

"New Shooters should have to work 4 major matches before they're ever allowed to shoot in one."

Congratulations. If you had your way you'd kill your own sport. That's like walking into a bowling alley and being told you have to work there part time for 6 months before you're allowed to play a game.

I'm ROing my first major match, and looking forward to doing so.

[Vlad]

I completely agree with having new shooters "pay their dues", before shooting a major match. It's exactly how I started. I have worked matches from the first day that I have started shooting 3-Gun. I RO all the local majors as well as host monthly matches at our range. As you said, It is a lot of work for not much of a thank you.

There is a severe lack of involvement from the younger crowd in the management side of this sport and its pretty sad. Hopefully that will change but it doesn't look good.

Yes because who I need RO'ing major matches are people who have no idea how to shoot the game they are officiating.