K frame spring kit recommendations

[FWSixgunner]

I've searched the forum but can't find a lot of feedback on spring kits.

I'm eyeing Jerry Miculek's.

I tried a Wolf kit once to reduce the abominable SA pull on a Redhawk and ended up putting the stock spring back in when groups started looking like they were fired from a BAR. This was with WLPs.

I guess while on the subject, I haven't bought primers in the past decade (took a hiatus from shooting.) Where can you find Federal small pistol, and is there a "next best"? I've still got a thousand or so CCI 500s.

Yes, I know, it's probably the worst possible time to start shopping for Fed primers.

[alecmc]

I use the Jerry M Bang INC main spring in all of my revolvers, i've experimented with the wolff kit and wound up putting the jerry spring back in.

as for primers, they're spotty - like everything else. They pop up every once in a while in small increments, but nothing steady. I've had a back order of fed. primers pending since feb.

I think the next best is winchester , federal of course being the best. CCI primers are pretty hard from what i've read.

Maybe try doing a trade with somebody cci for fed ?

[Carmoney]

I tried a Wolf kit once to reduce the abominable SA pull on a Redhawk and ended up putting the stock spring back in when groups started looking like they were fired from a BAR.

I have seen several posts recently from people who seem to think that lighter mainsprings can somehow be detrimental to a gun's intrinsic accuracy. It is simply not the case. A primer does not ignite "better" when it is struck harder. It either ignites, or it does not.

Now maybe a spring kit could create a mushy trigger and cause an individual shooter to not shoot the gun as well. I guess that could be possible.

[warpspeed]

I used one of the Wolff kits. Can't remember which spring I used but I think it was the 14# rebound spring. Never had an issue and it improved the pull dramatically.

[toothguy]

I like the Bang Inc. hammer spring but the rebound spring is to heavy for me ( I think #14). I use a Wolf #11 spring with 1 or 2 coils cut off. Brownells sells the rebound springs in 10 paks of the same spring, or in a test kit that has an #11 through #15 spring, one of each.

[FWSixgunner]

I tried a Wolf kit once to reduce the abominable SA pull on a Redhawk and ended up putting the stock spring back in when groups started looking like they were fired from a BAR.

I have seen several posts recently from people who seem to think that lighter mainsprings can somehow be detrimental to a gun's intrinsic accuracy. It is simply not the case. A primer does not ignite "better" when it is struck harder. It either ignites, or it does not.

Now maybe a spring kit could create a mushy trigger and cause an individual shooter to not shoot the gun as well. I guess that could be possible.

I did not "think" vertical stringing occurred with lighter mainsprings, I absolutely witnessed it.

The load was 21.8 H110 behind a 280 cast GC bullet, WLP primers. This was an exceptionally accurate load from that revolver, and my SA shooting skills with the .44 mag were well above average at the time.

Following my standard accuracy testing, each spring got 5 5-shot groups from the bench at 25 yards. Vertical stringing got progressively worse as spring weight was reduced from 14 down to 12 lbs,. A friend was able to visually observe the slower hammer fall.

Groups returned to their normal 1.5" average with the factory spring.

I suppose it could be attributed to follow through with the extended lock time. But if that were the case, the majority of shots would have landed in "jerkers corner". With the exception of a couple of called fliers, windage was constant while elevation varied dramatically with the lighter springs.

[Carmoney]

Sounds like a good subject for Coast-to-Coast AM late-night radio with George Noory.

[johnmac]

I like to replace the factory rebound spring with a #14 Wolff spring, it keeps the trigger return nice and crisp. I've experienced (and had to correct) some table-top trigger jobs I've "discovered" in some of my used guns that involved someone trimming too many coils off the rebound spring..resulting in an uneven and "jerky" trigger pull and return.

For the mainspring, I've gotten highly satisfactory results by putting a bit of arc, or "bend" into the factory spring. The result is a lower spring rate on the mainspring. Then again, I'm going more for smoothness and consistency than super-light trigger pull, and much of the smoothness comes from careful polishing/stoning of the hammer, trigger and other contact points.

John MacLean

[hopalong]

Try Vic Picketts "Black Magik" kit (you can find him through icore.org) it has a new main spring and two weights of rebound springs. All his springs are "chriogenized" which gives them a slightly different molecular structure than regular spring steel. He also has a different geometry on his Main spring. It can put as much or little resistance as a factory but just feels softer than a factory at the same weight by my trigger scale. (my experience).

The shorter of the two rebound springs give me around four lbs to overcome and the longer five. I cant out run the shorter and always have contact on the finger release even back when i was "in the game" and could do. . 15 splits on a really regular basis.

My next choice would be Jerry's kit.

Hopalong

[jhgtyre]

I tried a Wolf kit once to reduce the abominable SA pull on a Redhawk and ended up putting the stock spring back in when groups started looking like they were fired from a BAR.

I have seen several posts recently from people who seem to think that lighter mainsprings can somehow be detrimental to a gun's intrinsic accuracy. It is simply not the case. A primer does not ignite "better" when it is struck harder. It either ignites, or it does not.

Now maybe a spring kit could create a mushy trigger and cause an individual shooter to not shoot the gun as well. I guess that could be possible.

I did not "think" vertical stringing occurred with lighter mainsprings, I absolutely witnessed it.

The load was 21.8 H110 behind a 280 cast GC bullet, WLP primers. This was an exceptionally accurate load from that revolver, and my SA shooting skills with the .44 mag were well above average at the time.

Following my standard accuracy testing, each spring got 5 5-shot groups from the bench at 25 yards. Vertical stringing got progressively worse as spring weight was reduced from 14 down to 12 lbs,. A friend was able to visually observe the slower hammer fall.

Groups returned to their normal 1.5" average with the factory spring.

I suppose it could be attributed to follow through with the extended lock time. But if that were the case, the majority of shots would have landed in "jerkers corner". With the exception of a couple of called fliers, windage was constant while elevation varied dramatically with the lighter springs.

Sounds like the "slower hammer fall" or "decreased lock time" revealed a flaw in technique that resulted in the loss of accuracy. The springs cannot affect accuracy otherwise.

-ld

[FWSixgunner]

Sounds like a good subject for Coast-to-Coast AM late-night radio with George Noory.

Then feel free to quote from my post when you're on. Do let us know how it works out for you:-)

[FWSixgunner]

[quote name="jhgtyre" post="2054700"

The springs cannot affect accuracy otherwise.

-ld

That statement reads like an un-proven dogma: "Experts say...." therefore, it must true for every gun, load and spring.

Have you ever confirmed this with your own testing?

I am only saying in this one instance, it did affect accuracy and turned me off to wolf springs, at least for rugers.

A consistent flaw in technique still produces a group. The extreme vertical spread of the "groups" would be caused by breaking the wrist or lightening my grip very inconsistenty. Changes in grip pressure with a 2-handed hold would also result in some windage deviation, too, but it didn't. The vertical stringing was so bad, it would have been obvious with the factory spring if I were heeling or breaking my wrist.

I'm not defensive about my shooting, I just know what happened with this gun/load/spring and am satisfied that spring weight can affect accuracy. I'm not saying it always will or slamming lighter springs (notice in the OP I'm looking for one.)

If anyone can refer me to an exhaustative test of the effects of a lighter spring on accuracy, I will gladly read and reply, but not anymore "it doesn't" or "it can't" statements, and NOT in this thread.

[PatJones]

I have personally seen a benchrest rifle that was grouping poorly tighten up it's groups when mass and spring tension were both added to the firing pin. Marginal primer ignition does exist, but it is certainly open to discussion as to whether we can see it in our game.

Next time you have the chronograph at the range, tighten up your strain screw and chrono your ammunition again. Marginal ignition will show up on the chronograph. I have done this and I picked up an increase of about 5 on my power factor with an extra 1/2 pound of trigger pull.

A lighter trigger pull is a shooter aid that may be partially offset by marginal ignition if taken too far.

[BHill]

This would make an interesting ransom rest exercise. Starting load should be of known accuracy.

1. Start with a heavy hammer and light spring to the point of no ignition.

2. Shoot groups in half pound incremental increases until tension becomes impractical

3. Install Carmonized hammer at light spring tension and work up as before

4. Utilize the above tests with each brand of primer and primer power levels (standard/magnum)

Or something along these lines, you get the idea.

I "believe" you will find that the mechanical accuracy varies minimally throughout the spring tension exercise but it would be interesting to see.

I also "believe" a psychological effect is still has an effect whether it's spring kits or brand name shoes.

For the original questions. I like Jerry's mainspring with a lighter Wolf rebound. Federal primers are occasionally at Bass Pro on the shelves but be ready to adjust to a magnum primer. Midway has small and large federal pistol primers now, although they are the match series so same bang more buck. The large are the magnums.

All the best

BHill

[Carmoney]

Marginal primer ignition does exist, but it is certainly open to discussion as to whether we can see it in our game.

Next time you have the chronograph at the range, tighten up your strain screw and chrono your ammunition again. Marginal ignition will show up on the chronograph. I have done this and I picked up an increase of about 5 on my power factor with an extra 1/2 pound of trigger pull.

A lighter trigger pull is a shooter aid that may be partially offset by marginal ignition if taken too far.

Sorry guys, but I'm not buying the whole "marginal ignition" thing. If you stop and think about how a primer works, it just doesn't make sense.

A primer ignites when struck with sufficient force to begin a chain of unrestrained chemical reactions. Once that process begins, the result is always going to be essentially the same from one primer to the next. A primer is not going to ignite "better" or "hotter" when it is struck harder. It's not going to ignite "marginally" when struck with a lighter hit.

You might be able to convince me that increased lock time could affect a revolver's practical accuracy by creating more opportunity to introduce movement into the equation. But the marginal ignition idea is not valid.

[snertley]

"margianal ignition" is like being a "little bit" pregnant. As for the accuracy issue it is most likely due to increase or decrease in lock time + hammer inertia affecting your gun. Add into that if your not shooting well seated primers it will take that much more time to ignite while the firing pin finishes steating the primer before it strikes the anvil. Just my thoughts.

[Shadowrider]

I'll just throw this out there in regards to the rebound spring. A lot of people cut coils off and I have too. It obviously lightens pull weight. But I personally like leaving them at factory length and just going to a lighter spring until you get what you want the trigger return where you want it. Can't really explain the "why", but they just feel smoother and more positive at full length.

[FWSixgunner]

"margianal ignition" is like being a "little bit" pregnant. As for the accuracy issue it is most likely due to increase or decrease in lock time + hammer inertia affecting your gun. Add into that if your not shooting well seated primers it will take that much more time to ignite while the firing pin finishes steating the primer before it strikes the anvil. Just my thoughts.

OK, I see we have another "it can't happen" without even an anecdote to support the opinion.

BTW, there is such a thing as "little bit pregnant". It's called a tubal pregnancy. Conception occurs, but it does not result in a baby.