thegunnerd Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Hi Everyone After participating in a thread with a few other people about trying to suss out a problem with my AR doubling ( or possibly in this case , slam firing ) . We started talking about replacing my full mass firing pin with a titanium firing pin to reduce the mass and possibility of a slam fire . I'm running a JP LMOS , low mass rifle buffer , jp flat would chrome silicon spring , seekins adjustable gas block. So the question is …… what kind of firing pin do you run? what kind of operating system ? and why ? Have you found problems ? Did a firing pin solve that problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APL-G35 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Just curious, doesn't the lmos from JP come with a firing pin installed? What material is it? You would think if the lmos had slam fire troubles and a titanium pin would solve the issue, that they would ship with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegunnerd Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 From what i can tell it's a steel firing pin. It actually depends on the speed of your recoil system. It may be with my load in combination with the spring and buffer that it's slamming back too hard . Not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 JP LMOS Bolt assly with adj gas. Always have used a std AR15 steel firing pin. Never had a double or a slam fire. I have had several rifles set up this way and never an issue. Even a Ti Bolt carrier I ran for a while was fine with a std firing pin. Ammo has varied from M193 to my reloads using no 41 primers to factory rem and winchester. All has performed fine. I can not recall if I ever used std small rifle primers or not, nor do I know what factory .223 uses for primers. I do think that softer primers may be the culprit for many who do have issues. A Ti firing pin may be a treatment for that symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I've always used a standard firing pin. I also reload with standard SRP - CCI & Wolf/Tula. Full mass carrier & low mass carrier. Adj gas & light buffer. Never had an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) Every CTR-02 rifle that I have been around that has slam fired has been cured with a Ti pin. Not all of them do, but I would bet that a lot of shooters have had it happen and immediately blamed the trigger, kind of like the path you veered off on. I did have one slam fire years ago when I was closing the bolt at load and make ready, around 2001 since that time I have always run a Ti pin. I have fixed around 10 light systems with Ti pins and have observed many more slam fire during a match. The unaware will always blame the trigger. The reason I'll bet they don't come with one is that there isn't a consistent supply source. Edited December 3, 2013 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpom Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Just asking, but can a Ti pin hold up as well as a heat treated steel pin? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I use one in my match rifle. I could force mine to double if held really hard and the extra piece of mind to step further away from a possible DQ at LAMR is worth a few bucks to me. The first double I ever saw in person was when Casanova shot my JP prone many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Interesting.....I blamed my SD3G trigger for doubling in my match rifle with JP lo mass carrier and JP bolt completion kit when shooting prone and switched to an AR Gold trigger. It hasn't happened since, but I hadn't shot that gun prone in some time either. I never considered the firing pin. I may have to pick up a couple Ti firing pins and see if I can recreate that issue with that trigger group again, or if it solves it. While I like the AR Gold trigger, I felt like I shot paper faster with the Geiselle (I sometimes do not let the trigger out with the AR Gold for the second shot, just like when trying to shoot someone's 2011) and lost little to nothing on the long range targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 ...pulled from the "other thread".... "CHECK THE FIRED PRIMERS: IF SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED W/ THE DOUBLING LOOK LIKE A LITTLE VOLCANO GROWING BACK OUT OF THE PRIMER, IT IS SLAM FIRING (ALSO WILL BEND THE SNOT OUT OF YOUR FIRING PIN RETAINING COTTER PIN). If you unload your chambered round after shooting and the primer looks like "HOLY CR@P! Why didn't that go off?" that is also a good indication of too much firing pin mass for the system operating speed. I run titanium firing pins in my JP rifles w/ LMOS to avoid slam firing (I did have it SOME TIMES with standard steel firing pins) and JP alludes to this issue in their owner's manuals." Additonally, my slam firing occured w/ an older JP aluminum carrier when we first started running "LMOS" type systems (i.e. RACING!). Never saw it using XM193 (why?: harder primers) and would see it using CCI BR4's in reloads. Put in a QMI pin from Eddie Rhodes' SOF prize bag (he wouldn't take money) and problem solved. With my newer SS LMOS guns, I always have ran a TI pin from day one, never any issues. I do inspect the tips occasionally by magnifier and by dragging it across my lip, but have NEVER lost one or had one exhibit the dreaded and much internet discussed "tip erosion". ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I do inspect the tips occasionally by magnifier and by dragging it across my lip Will you kiss my firing pin too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (big sigh.......) I KNEW I shouldn't have typed that......... ......carry on....... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Just asking, but can a Ti pin hold up as well as a heat treated steel pin? Mark I tried a couple of different Ti firing pins over 10 years ago. All I can say is that you should check your firing pin for damage/wear whenever your BCA is out of the upper no matter what it's made of. The tips of the ones I tried sort of eroded or something so I pulled them and never spent the money to get more. I wouldn't mind going back to Ti because it's a superior part for the job in terms of performance. But in terms of longevity, maybe today's are better? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I have never had one go "bad"...ever and I have one I got in 2003. I would ask you this, for those that say they don't work, how come Ti pins last in a pistol, but not a rifle. Very interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I had a Ti firing pin go south in a Glock after about 20K rounds. That was when I found out that TiN on Ti is not the best choice. The on in my AR has had no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I blew a primer in the later 90's with an AR in Highpower shooting (we were using HOT loads for 600 yards) and the tip of the Ti firing pin was melted off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) I blew a primer in the later 90's with an AR in Highpower shooting (we were using HOT loads for 600 yards) and the tip of the Ti firing pin was melted off. Highly likely Bill, that if that really was melted (Ti MP is a little over 3000F), it would have vaporized a steel firing pin. Edited December 4, 2013 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I blew a primer in the later 90's with an AR in Highpower shooting (we were using HOT loads for 600 yards) and the tip of the Ti firing pin was melted off. Highly likely Bill, that if that really was melted (Ti MP is a little over 3000F), it would have vaporized a steel firing pin. Huh, I'm stumped then. I returned it to the vendor at Camp Perry I had purchased it from and went back to steel FP's and have had no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Probably shear then impact. Edited December 4, 2013 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Probably shear or impact. Wish I had a pic of it, but the thing looked melted, not cracked. Very weird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 To looks different than steel. I've blown up a few ARs, on purpose, and things break, then get rubbed at high pressure, can look like melting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Anybody recommend a particular Titanium AR firing pin then? I just did a lackluster search and the ones I found all have a Titanium Nitride coating, which MarkCO is saying is a negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Brownell's carries two that are not TiN coated. That is where I get mine from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mngunguy Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) Brownell's carries two that are not TiN coated. That is where I get mine from. Mark, do you recall what about the TiN coating was bad for this particular use, or what issues you saw? I only ask as I'm running a TiNi coated FP now and if that's the same as TiN I'd like to know what to watch out for. Edited December 5, 2013 by mngunguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 The two impact points, where the nose hits the primer, and where the hammer hits the head of the FP, are more prone to material shear with the TiN coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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