when did revolver become a division?

[brnhp35]

Was reading a article comparing the taurus 608 (moonclipped) and the 627 and they were shooting "ipsc" and talking about the capacity being a issue and that limited was only place they fit...so was just curious when revolver split into its own division.

[pskys2]

I'm pretty sure it was 2001 for both USPSA and IPSC.

[brnhp35]

Ok that frame of reference makes the article make more sense. Thanks.

[StraightUp_OG]

In the beginning of USPSA/IPSC there were only 2 divisions.

Auto & Revolver.

So since 1976 I believe.

[seanc]

In the beginning of USPSA/IPSC there were only 2 divisions.

Auto & Revolver.

So since 1976 I believe.

I wish there were a history someplace that actualy laid out the divisions history. The OP actually got me to start looking and its suprisingly difficult to figure out, basically looking back at the old frontsight issues which is maddeningly slow.

It might have started auto/revo, but at some point did it just become limited/open, then later revolver came back in?

[StraightUp_OG]

FAIK Revo has always been a division. I Started in '85 but took a hiatus for some years so I can't say that Revo has never been deprecated. I am sure there are some old timers here that know for sure but Wiki was incomplete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Practical_Shooting_Association

[MWP]

What? There are divisions besides revolver?

Edited October 24, 2013 by MWP

[StraightUp_OG]

You edit, then so do I...

Edited October 24, 2013 by StraightUp_OG

[wheelie]

So there are divisions and classes.

Divisions:

Open

Limited

Limited 10

Production

Single Stack

Revolver

Classes:

Grand Master

Master

A

B

C

D

And before that it was major, minor and A, B, C.

It was considered poor sportsmanship to offer stages that revolvers had no chance of winning.

And dumb since about half or more of the folks who came were shooting revolvers.

We laughed at Browning Hi-Power shooters because even though they had a lot of bullets, they often could not knock over the metal which was set far harder than now-a-days.

[StraightUp_OG]

There still is Major and Minor but that is a scoring designation not a class or division. And I believe there was always Master class.

But yes old major was 175 and Minor was 165 PF and before chronographs the way they tested was with a metal gong that had to travel a certain distance.

Edited October 24, 2013 by StraightUp_OG

[pskys2]

In the beginning of IPSC there were no Divisions. Everything was heads up, Jeff Coopers grand experiment to prove what was the best combat handgun.

USPSA began in 1984. I had an Annual Number of A135. And everything was heads up, you just didn't see many Revo's and only an occasional Hi Power or some other. Master was the highest until about '92, got my Master card , and then they created Grand Master.

Limited and Open came about in 1994. Production and Revolver became USPSA Divisions in 2001. I don't see any results for L10 before 2001, even though I thought it was a Division before, a by product of the Mag Ban. But it may have become a Division along with Production and Revolver.

In the beginning local clubs tried different scoring systems and many had their own Categories that they recognized, but there were no official Divisions. Things were pretty loose until 1985/6 and USPSA became the dominant force in Practical Shooting and the scoring systems, Classes and Match Procedures became more uniform. Combat Matches became IPSC Matches and the IPSC/USPSA rules split came much later.

USPSA has a short blurb http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-about-history.php and they have quite a few Front Sights on line from the past, they were missing a few and were looking for copies a while back. http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-archive.php

At least that's the way I remember it! As a side note:

There were so many unheralded organizers in the early days. Here in Kansas a man named Greg Moats was the driving force for over a decade. He had come from California and shot at the Big Bear Matches with Cooper. Every Section and what later became Area's had their own driving force. USPSA needs to try to track those guys down and get their stories, none of them are getting any younger!

Edited October 25, 2013 by pskys2

[StraightUp_OG]

Ah yes heads up run what you brung! Although not a formal division I seem to remember recognizing the top revo. At least at club matches we did. Man it has been a long time...

[Bubber]

Yep at the larger matches Revolver was a category and they really did not care the configuration, comped, optics, 8 shot or what ever. All the prize tables that i got to go through were straight order of finish. rdd

[ChrisC]

Did you have to ride horses to matches back then

[ChuckS]

Did you have to ride horses to matches back then

Horses were domesticated some time later... the stone tables for scoring were a pain.

[pskys2]

Of course back then there were few optics, most Revo's were pretty basic. Though at a mid '80's Indoor Championships at the Bullet Hole we had a guy shoot a LASER sighted auto, the tube for it looked like a scope used in the Civil War. And most who did shoot a Revo used speed loaders.

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip. I don't remember seeing any before the mid '90's. But then with the equipment race I was always toting a Bottom Feeder. Though I qualified in '94 for Limited with my 6" M28 and speed loaders using Magnum ammo, the only Limited gun I had at the time.

Where do you think SASS got the idea for the Mounted Cowboy Matches,eh.

Edited October 25, 2013 by pskys2

[Bill Nesbitt]

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip.

They were welding 2 half moon clips together at Second Chance in the early 80s.

[pskys2]

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip.

They were welding 2 half moon clips together at Second Chance in the early 80s.

I was thinking it was the early '90's when I first saw, or read about, full moon clips.

[Guest]

I don't know when full moons were initially made, but I know that the 625 model of 1989 came with them and I got that in '89 or maybe early '90.

[Carmoney]

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip.

They were welding 2 half moon clips together at Second Chance in the early 80s.

I'll bet that was John Lazarro. I've always heard he was the first one to think of that.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip.

They were welding 2 half moon clips together at Second Chance in the early 80s.

I'll bet that was John Lazarro. I've always heard he was the first one to think of that.

I don't know who it was. This was before the 625s. All we had were 25-2s.

[pskys2]

I started drooling over the 45 revolvers again once I saw the Full Moon Clips start showing up. I'd always regretted selling the first 45 DA Revolver I had in my youth. But it was a 45 colt and split every 5th case (seems I was told it was converted 455 Webley). So when Revolver became a Division I just had to get one. Even had 5 packs of Full Moon Clips before I had a 45 DA Revolver!

Edited October 26, 2013 by pskys2

[hearthco]

Interesting side question, when did FULL Moon Clips become wide spread? Originally it was a 2 or 3 round clip.

They were welding 2 half moon clips together at Second Chance in the early 80s.

I'll bet that was John Lazarro. I've always heard he was the first one to think of that.

Mike STILL uses them

[Carmoney]

Yeah, I still use those cheap moonclips stamped out of old soup cans for .45 ACP. Old habits, I guess.

But for my 8-shooters, it's HEARTHCO all the way! I've got 80 of those babies!