Tom C Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 At last weekends IDPA match there was an older gentleman who, at least it looked to me, was shooting IDPA for the first time. Not being an SO and not having ever met the older gent (maybe late 60's early 70's) I try my best to not offer advice BUT in his case I had too.. He had 2 mags stowed on his belt, left side (guessing FOBUS) and one in his right pocket. Interestingly, he was using the mag from his pocket NOT as his starting mag so he was reaching awkwardly across his body to retrieve a "spare" mag at points during his run. After he shot I broke my rule and asked him why he didn't just use that pocketed mag as his "first mag" then he'd be working "off the belt" for his reloads. I was surprised his reply was that he'd never thought about it and no one ever said anything to him before. He thanked me and started doing as I suggested. Point being (and I'm NOT picking on any SO's) DON'T assume. If you see an awkward situation, talk to the shooter. They might have been doing it "this way" their whole life for whatever reason. Also, in defense of the SO's...They had their hands full as last weekends match was the first one under the new rules and they were dealing with that as well as everything else (like keeping the participants engaged in helping tape, reset steel, swingers and such). The SO's are only human and can use help from the non-SO's in any way we can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. At a local match with a new shooter, I will advise... 99% of the time it is after the shooter is finished and holstered. I do want them to feel welcome. The only time during the COF I may say something are things like finger, cover, move, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTH Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 The SO at my first couple of matches couched me..after the CoF but I listened and was happy to hear what she had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom C Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. At a local match with a new shooter, I will advise... 99% of the time it is after the shooter is finished and holstered. I do want them to feel welcome. The only time during the COF I may say something are things like finger, cover, move, etc... I would find it a stretch to call correcting potentially risky handling of a firearm or magazines, coaching. But, to be clear in my comment, no SO said anything to the shooter. I did and am not an SO. Also, I shot USPSA for a number of years and, like it or not, I saw RO's (as USPSA calls them) coaching new shooters. I see nothing wrong with it in the short term as it helps the learning process. Major matches are a different story but in local matches it's one way the newer shooters learn. Also my comment was made to him AFTER he shot. A far cry from coaching. Remember...Let he, who is so pure, cast the first stone. Edited October 12, 2013 by Tom C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. At a local match with a new shooter, I will advise... 99% of the time it is after the shooter is finished and holstered. I do want them to feel welcome. The only time during the COF I may say something are things like finger, cover, move, etc... I would find it a stretch to call correcting potentially risky handling of a firearm or magazines, coaching. But, to be clear in my comment, no SO said anything to the shooter. I did and am not an SO. Also, I shot USPSA for a number of years and, like it or not, I saw RO's (as USPSA calls them) coaching new shooters. I see nothing wrong with it in the short term as it helps the learning process. Major matchesare a different story but in local matches it's one way the newer shooters learn. Also my comment was made to him AFTER he shot. A far cry from coaching. Remember...Let he, who is so pure, cast the first stone. Tom, I think you are right. I don't "normally" coach a shooter during a course of fire, as the SO, but only because... My primary focus, especially with a new shooter, is safety. I think you would agree, a new shooter general doesn't have the best gun handling skills. So, when this new shooter is transitioning targets, moving from position to position, and reloading I am completely focused on everyone's safety. Now, I have no issues at all with a SO helping a new shooter become a better shooter. That is what grows the sport. After the COF is over and the gun is safe in the holster, I will talk to the shooter about what they did do great for encouragement and point out some things they can work on. If I'm not running the timer, and standing with the peanut gallery, I try to make a point to talk to them so they feel welcome and want to come back. Many, of my SO friends feel the same way, help the new shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Tom, I think you made the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom C Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 I know the point of the forums is NOT to have conversations but, with respects to weapon handling...As I said, I shot USPSA for a time (10+ yrs) and I've seen unsafe weapon handling from all from unclassified to Grand Master and D Q's for same. Anyone can and might make a mistake when weapon handling the key, as has been pointed out, is correcting the handling mistakes "nicely" even when a DQ gets handed down. Sometimes DQ's are the best coach. I like both sports (IDPA and USPSA) and find the "need" to look for weaknesses in either a lesson in futility. I just happen yo enjoy IDPA more than USPSA for my own reasons. One day I will be a member in both but currently I am detoxing from USPSA (we all need a break from time to time). There are some of the finest people one will ever meet shooting these two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 As a newer shooter that is still currently unclassified, I'm always eager to hear constructive feedback from the more seasoned shooters. Especially any observations on safer gun handling. Although as I progress up through the standings week after week, I find I'm getting a lot less coaching. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom C Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 As a newer shooter that is still currently unclassified, I'm always eager to hear constructive feedback from the more seasoned shooters. Especially any observations on safer gun handling. Although as I progress up through the standings week after week, I find I'm getting a lot less coaching. Lol Eventually you will coach. It's a part of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 At a steel match today, I watched a shooter adjust his foot position after every buzzer. I coached him. Sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I really think it was a great thing you did Tom... Hopefully he will remember that and pass it on sometime himself ..clubs around here do a great job helping out new shooters,with coaching IF asked for. When I So a 1st time shooter , I will help them out during the COF as they go along,with gun safety being 1st and helping 2nd. A lot of new shooters just show up at a local match with no idea what is going on and are to nervous to ask for help.. I think clubs should have a 1st time shooter squad to help them out and want them to come back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Tom, while some folks might consider what you did coaching, I see it as growing the sport. You did it off the clock and it is was done to help a new shooter, potenially reducing his frustation level and increasing his enjoyment level. I had a Chief tell me one time "You are always training your replacement, no matter where you're at. While this elderly gentleman is probably not your replacement, doing the same thing with younger shooters does accomplish that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. In USPSA, it's not coaching if it happens outside the COF, it's just being a friendly, welcoming and encouraging human being. We do it here with new shooters as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. In USPSA, it's not coaching if it happens outside the COF, it's just being a friendly, welcoming and encouraging human being. We do it here with new shooters as well. If you RO, please don't take that attitude to any USPSA major match - you will get spanked by experienced staff, and possibly have a complaint filed against you by other competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. In USPSA, it's not coaching if it happens outside the COF, it's just being a friendly, welcoming and encouraging human being. We do it here with new shooters as well. If you RO, please don't take that attitude to any USPSA major match - you will get spanked by experienced staff, and possibly have a complaint filed against you by other competitors. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience. Although I have worked the last two nationals and observed no such spanking, I was generally speaking of level 1 matches where we actually see new shooters, and we're not competing for the fabulous motorhome that goes to the top D-class production shooter. My bad for not specifying. If a new shooter shows up at a major and looks screwed up, I would probably leave it to his squadmates to square him away rather than risk having a 'complaint filed against me' by competitors who were skeered of a clueless newb. BTW, One thing I have noticed about USPSA is the majority of the really top shooters are NOT self-absorbed a-holes. You can see and hear the supersquad guys sharing tips and advice with their rivals from start to finish on a stage. Edited October 17, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac4wordplay Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 So, in IDPA, SO's coach shooters? Interesting. In USPSA, it's not coaching if it happens outside the COF, it's just being a friendly, welcoming and encouraging human being. We do it here with new shooters as well. If you RO, please don't take that attitude to any USPSA major match - you will get spanked by experienced staff, and possibly have a complaint filed against you by other competitors. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge and experience. Although I have worked the last two nationals and observed no such spanking, I was generally speaking of level 1 matches where we actually see new shooters, and we're not competing for the fabulous motorhome that goes to the top D-class production shooter. My bad for not specifying. If a new shooter shows up at a major and looks screwed up, I would probably leave it to his squadmates to square him away rather than risk having a 'complaint filed against me' by competitors who were skeered of a clueless newb. BTW, One thing I have noticed about USPSA is the majority of the really top shooters are NOT self-absorbed a-holes. You can see and hear the supersquad guys sharing tips and advice with their rivals from start to finish on a stage. I didn't intend to come off as snitty - if it read that way then I apologize. I've worked a few Nationals too. Respectfully, ac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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