Single Stack Build Major or Minor

[ss+P]

ok so i have a new single stack frame and i am just getting into single stack. i have a .40 cal slide and a 9mm slide. i am fighting myself trying to decide if i should shoot major or minor.

I am a B class in SS and an A in Limited. i am currently shooting my wife's gun b/c she is Prego and it is minor.

in limited and open i get major is probably better b/c of the point difference, and i know that is true in SS as well, but you get 2 more rounds in your magazine in minor. that could be one more target (or 2 makeup shots).

Correct me if i am wrong, but Dave Sevigny almost won SS Nats in minor this year didn't he. i know A's are A's but I don't shoot ALL A's.

So is it better to shoot major and get 1 more point or have 2 more rounds.

thanks for the help

[jualdeaux]

I have an STI Trojan in 9mm. It is the best shooting gun I have ever owned. I have been shooting SS for a couple years with it now.

Go with the .40 slide. Major PF rules.

[lawboy]

This topic has been discussed a lot and opinions vary. When I shoot SS I shoot major. But I have a shooting buddy who shoots minor and he had beat me plenty of times. I think it comes down to stage design in the area where you shoot. If most of the stages consist of shoot 3 or 4 targets and move to next target array, or shoot 3 or 4 steel targets and 1 or 2 paper and move to next array, then major is going to be more competitive because the minor gun will need to do the same reloads as the major gun. The couple of makeup shoots have not proven to be a real benefit as far as I can tell.

Now, if the stage designers in your area are more creative and are making you shoot 1 or 2 targets then move, or a mix of steel and paper that is 1 to 4 shots then move, now the minor gun can have an advantage because you won't need to reload on every move where as the major guns will have to do a few more reloads. If you are shooting competitive raw points with in minor against the major guns, then minor can give you an edge.

[sperman]

If you build the gun in .40, you can shoot major or minor. If you search there are mags from Tripp that will hold 10 rounds of .40 and still fit in the box. (If you shoot major, you can only load 8.) I've been told that .40 minor is extremely soft, but you do spend a few cents more per bullet.

[ss+P]

Superman good point. I think I will go the .40 route. Thanks guys.

I am not building till January so keep the convo. Going I may change my mind

[Jammer1911]

Since you have both slides already why not have the best of both worlds. Build both. just the extra cost of the upper. JMHO

I have SSs in 9, 40 and 45. Enjoy all of them.

[ss+P]

Yeah that is how my 2011 is, was .40 now a 0 for 3 gun. Really like single stack just not sure what caliber. I am going to hope I can have the best of both worlds

[Dirtychemist]

I'm a C in Single Stack and I wouldn't shoot anything BUT Major. My second match I beat the other 2 shooters in single stack and they were C shooters or regulars at the range. I won because I was shooting major. Even when my classifiers were thrown out and I was a D I was beating guys "better than me" by shooting major.

The ONLY downside is 8 rounds SUCKS on 75% of stages. 4 paper targets and you have to reload. If you're ONLY building it for Single Stack I'd stick with Major. If you want to shoot limited or Limited 10 I'd plan that right now. Sometimes I consider switching to Limited 10 but it means new magazines.

[Jammer1911]

I am a C Class also. I am regularly in top of the division locally shooting minor and also regularly beat B and A class Limited guys

[Cy Soto]

Correct me if i am wrong, but Dave Sevigny almost won SS Nats in minor this year didn't he.

A better way to say it is that he lost the number one spot BECAUSE he was shooting minor.

[steviesterno]

build it in 40. That way, you can shoot major and load to 8, or run minor ammo and load up to 10. 40 minor is the softest shooting set up I've seen. I use like 2.6gn clays under a 165 lead bullet and it's stupid stupid light. I shoot it in 3 gun and limited minor for the practice. It's a good round and it will take a long time to recoup the cost of building a 9m top end, too.

[Sean Gaines]

Correct me if i am wrong, but Dave Sevigny almost won SS Nats in minor this year didn't he.

A better way to say it is that he lost the number one spot BECAUSE he was shooting minor.

Its all about the points! go with .40cal

[sperman]

The way I understand it, Dave planned to shoot major, but went minor at chrono. That means he had 8 rounds in his mags (at least before he went minor) and was shooting ~160 power factor. I think if his plan was to shoot minor from the start, with the low PF and 10 rounds in the mag, it would be a different story.

He lost because he went minor at chrono, not because he was shooting minor.

[Strick]

As I say every time I see these threads.....compare the top shooters in Prod against SSTK major.

The thing that I always get confused about is people say that a Para P14 holding 17-18 +1 can't be competitive against a .40 holding 19-20 +1.......because those 2 rounds are critical.

My take is this......SSTK minor is a plus depending on stage design, in most cases the 2 rounds opens a lot of oppurtunities. Using SSTK Nationals as a benchmark is flawed since it designed around 8 shot guns. I also think that is a little easier to shoot A's at a faster pace in minor then with major, where major pays off a little is if you just want to hose and take C's.

[CDPMatt]

Minor at locals, major at level 2+

[steel1212]

I've still not seen enough proof that minor is the answer. Stricks example with the para is comparing 2 major power factor guns and the issue there is one might not have to do a reload where there other may. I've ran battle in the bluegrass for 4 years and it's production vs SS only. The production guy has never won combined HOA. One year that production guy was me and Shaun didn't have a good match and the better points still floated him.

Edited October 4, 2013 by steel1212

[steel1212]

Minor at locals, major at level 2+

Why would you shoot minor at locals if you wouldn't at majors?

[Strick]

I am not really saying that one is better, I don't think there is an advantage.

Also BIB, being Prod and SSTK only, is not a good comparison either. Area matches, a match like Double Tap, something that is match that is not geared to any division in particular is a more fair comparison.

[ericjhuber]

If you build the gun in .40, you can shoot major or minor. If you search there are mags from Tripp that will hold 10 rounds of .40 and still fit in the box. (If you shoot major, you can only load 8.) I've been told that .40 minor is extremely soft, but you do spend a few cents more per bullet.

This is why I went with .40 for my Single Stack build. I was debating between 9 and .40 and decided to do .40 after one of the local Jedi Masters said it would be the best overall option for me. I can load up 40 minor if I want to for things like Steel Challenge and Pro AM and if I ever get into Limited, I'd be using the same ammo.

[CDPMatt]

Minor at locals, major at level 2+

Why would you shoot minor at locals if you wouldn't at majors?

For me it's b/c most locals aren't nearly as 8 shot neutral as majors, cheaper ammo, and b/c I shoot production mostly so I can use the same stage plans, # of rounds, etc. if I were to shoot SS at a major though I think I'd shoot major PF for the points.

[CDPMatt]

At least that's my plan....

[flack jacket]

My vote 40... AND 9mm

I have both.. 40 for major competitions and 9mm as a great loaner for friends and shooting local club matches in minor. 10 rounds, similar to production but with superior trigger.

2 alpha is only more refined AIM and trigger control...

[ss+P]

Wow. Great answers. Steel1212 I work with the Shaun you are referring to and he says major also. I like the idea of 9 for local and 40 for majors simple bc ammo is cheaper. I think this is the route I will be taking

[frag316]

I've said this before in other places, but most state and Area matches are much more Production friendly than Single Stack Major friendly. If you don't shoot SS-only matches a lot and have no particular attraction to Major (I happen to believe the .45 is the perfect SS round, but I'm strange), then you might want to shoot Minor--IF you can shoot accurately enough to not drop a bunch of points for shooting C's at speed. If not, then Major makes more sense, in my not-so-humble.

Why not build both slides to fit the frame?

[Racer377]

I did some number crunching on this, using PRD (10rds of minor) compared to SSTK Major T16 at the 2012 IN section match (because I was there and knew the stages weren't particularly skewed to 8-reload-8-reload-8 layouts)

http://ingunowners.com/forums/shooting-sports/245697-considering-change.html#post3496634

SS is a neat division in which the capacity tradeoff makes minor more competitive than it otherwise would be in LTD or LTD10.

Assuming you could get it to run right, that extra 2 rounds gives you quite a few more options in stage planning and can save a few reloads over the course of a match. Whether those are worth it depends on your ability to shoot alphas, and to some extent the stage design tendencies of the MD.

One thing I've noticed doing some number crunching is that 10rd minor production guys, on average, tend to have ever so slightly higher HF than SS major guys for a given stage at a given major match. Which is the opposite of what you'd expect, thinking that major is an automatic 15-20% advantage. The data don't support that conventional wisdom. For example, taking the T16 of the IN section match

Stages 4, 5, and 6 were quick speed shoots. 6 was all steel 6rds, and apparently those 2 extra made a BIG difference. Not for the top guys that were able to get it more or less clean, but for everyone else.

It doesn't appear that 10rds of minor in PRD compared to 8 of major in SS is hurting them too bad.

It might be that generally more reliable 9mm production guns with easier to reload double stack mags are the reason for the higher HFs. Get it to run right with a big ol' techwell on there, plus the better trigger, it could be a contender.

....

That is the state match, not the SS/PROD match. There was 1 GM in SS there - Shaun Hopkins.

But it's certainly a fair point - the PRD field was deeper still with 3 GMs and 4Ms, compared to 1/1 in SS. Which is why I didn't compare winners or top 3 or top 5. With top 16, the effect of the standouts is moderated somewhat.

The PRD T16 have on average an 8% lead on the SS guys. That would mean that in order for the "15-20% advantage" hypothesis to hold, that would mean that the PRD guys are 23-31% better than the SS guys. That's a HUGE difference, that if I were to crunch classifier averages probably wouldn't be supported by the data. ETA: Avg T16 classification % - PRD: 82.05, SS: 74.17. ~8% difference, just like the HFs. Seems to confirm my suspicion that 8rd major vs 10rd minor is a wash.

If you take a look at the top finisher (Usually Alex G in PRD, and Shaun in SS) in the graphs, it's close, but the top SS guy only beat the top PRD guy on 2 stages - 6 and 8.

There really isn't a good sample match with equally deep fields to get a better comparison unfortunately.

.... (end quoted material)

The numbers seem to indicate that minor SSTK isn't as bad as people think. It's not a huge advantage, either.