zhunter Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Yes.... What he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Jeez, am I the only guy who obsesses about making power factor and would never, ever shoot a match with something I knew wasn't making pf? I don't obssess over it, but I would never knowingly delcare major if it didn't make it. Jakester and Sunny ... thanks for the feedback on hot ranges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Jeez, am I the only guy who obsesses about making power factor and would never, ever shoot a match with something I knew wasn't making pf? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 OKay ... did any of you old timers ever shoot at clubs at that ran their ranges hot in the old days? If so, were there any problems? I still shoot at two hot ranges. One was actually an IPSC club in the old days but then it became an outlaw club when IPSC became sissified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just curious. For hot ranges, you're allowed cocked and locked carry? Or make it a point to have chamber empty but with mag inserted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just curious. For hot ranges, you're allowed cocked and locked carry? Or make it a point to have chamber empty but with mag inserted? "Hot" means your can should be in whatever condition it needs to be in to fire. Typically that's cocked'n'locked for a single action gun, or hammer down on a loaded chamber for a double action. "Hot" is how we carry in real life! The real world is a hot range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just curious. For hot ranges, you're allowed cocked and locked carry? Or make it a point to have chamber empty but with mag inserted? Cocked and Locked. Do not play with your gun until it is time to shoot, just like USPSA. Like Rhino said The real world is a hot range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Jeez, am I the only guy who obsesses about making power factor and would never, ever shoot a match with something I knew wasn't making pf? No. I load major match ammo 100 rounds at a time to separate Akro-Bins. Then I randomly pull and bag and label ten rounds from each bin and shoot them over the chrono. Not only do the ten have to average out to at least 132, if there's a single round below 130 the corresponding 90 rounds at home goes into the local match/practice supply..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisgahrifle Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 There are many companies selling that type of bullet. The H&G 68 moniker is just the name of the original Hensley & Gibbs mold. I've been very pleased with the Laser-Cast 200-gr. LSWC. Harder than the hinges of hell, zero leading. I'll give those a try. I've been buying the Rainier 200 gr PF's we've been subbing for the LSWCs from Midway, and I know they carry Laser Cast. Does anyone else have better prices on 'em? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Without turning this into a thread about how to get away with shooting powder puff loads, there are more than a few ways to get the pipsqueak loads into your mags and then shoot the flame thrower loads over the chrony...suffice it to say, most all of us old gamers explored most if not all of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 Duane, it is one thing to obsess, it is another to let one's obessions get in the way of getting the job done. In a match, it is to follow the rules and produce the best score possible. In life, it is to prevail. I have seen the results of, and read reports of many others, of Detroit coppers and the bad guys DTR, from loads that were not even close to Major, to be overly concerned with Major in and of itself. Another IPSC/DPD encounter: we get an old-school Detroit cop out for a match. (Early 1980s?) He understood that "45s win the matches" so he brought one. He pulls out a walnut display case, and produces a Detroit PD Commemorative 1911. One of the wheelgunners says "Hey, I've got one, too" and draws an S&W DPD Commemorative, a 25-3 in .45 Colt. Now today it would be a big "so what?" But back then, during the commemorative craze, people took it seriously. Except to them, the guns were just fanci-fied tools for making bad people do as they were told. Engraved, gold-inlaid compliance tools. Oh, they were both loaded. As I said, tools for bad-guy compliance. Cold ranges back then for them were the places they sighted-in their deer rifles. Everyplace else was a hot range, for life was spent hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 As it should be! Amen! If I had some fancy commemorative gun, the first thing I'd do is make sure it was clean enough to shoot, lubed, and then load it and shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 It is a tool, afterall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 You guys obviously weren't walking the "right" gun shows back in the days of commemoratives right 'n left. You could get horsewhipped for racking the lever on a Winchester commemorative whatsit. If you scratch it, you lower its "value." Since I was hanging with guys who were real collectors (one fellow I knew back then had one of every Mauser bolt gun I'd ever heard of, including things like folding-stock synthetic stocked M-98s) commemorative "collectors" were beneath us. But we still didn't rack the levers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I saw the tail end of the "commemorative" craze. Never figured out why you'd want a gun you knew you weren't going to shoot (or even turn the cylinder on..) I have some I never shoot, but that's a different story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Patrick I know some of those guys who never rackek the lever, but have never been one of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 OK, back to the classics. Those of you who think equipment races are new, and that gamers were unheard of in the Golden Age, think again. Back when the Devel 8-shot .45 magazine was the hottest thing, and we were hearing rupmors from the West Coast about some kids shooting Supers with (gasp, the horror!) ten shot magazines, there was a movement to limit magazines. I think the real impetus was a (then) recent importation of a batch of high quality and reliable magazines for the Browning Hi Power. As in: 25 rounds each. The 1911 and the P-35 had been duking it out in the early days, but by then (1982-3?) the bloom was off the P-35 rose. Minor was just too much of a hurdle to overcome, even with twice the magazine capacity. (13 vs. 7-8) But three times the capacity? Background: in the early 1980s, a big field course might be 24 rounds. It was a huge course that got to 30. (Well, most places, our club did them all the time.) As soon as shooters started bringing out their old P-35s with big stick mags, the scream went up. The solution? More than one bright guy insisted that magazines be flush with the frame. A nearby club, who found themselves losing every class (and all the money to shooters from our club) passed THE RULE: magazines had to be flush. The very next match, a guy shows up with a welded-on extension on his P-35, which brought his 25 round magazine flush to the extension. It wrapped completely around the magazine, and the welds were continuous, not just tack welds. He'd even gone so far as to get the frame re-blued. The RO didn't say a word. He just stared at it, like it was some venomous snake about to bite, while the shooter loaded and made ready. There was never another word in our area about "flush mags" and we shot what we wanted until the USPSA passed the length rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I love these stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 I want to hear more about the money changing hands! It's my understanding that at some clubs in the 80s, there was always money on the line, even at club matches! Nowadays, unless there is a side bet, the idea of cash prizes at a club match are foreign to us around here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I want to hear more about the money changing hands! It's my understanding that at some clubs in the 80s, there was always money on the line, even at club matches!Nowadays, unless there is a side bet, the idea of cash prizes at a club match are foreign to us around here! Rhino, ya gotta come east --- in the Mid-Atlantic Section there's prize money to be had. Those folks in PA might even let you carry a small arsenal --- I know better than to suggest that you visit us in Joisey...... LOL LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 OK Rhino. In the oldest days, we'd have plaques or trophies. "First A," "Top Stock," etc. I don't know about other clubs, but I cna tell you the last time our club did it: our June, 1984 match. After spending the whole first half of the year makign and distributing plaques, we still had some on hand from the january and February matches. We decided that if the members couldn't be bothered picking up hardware, we'd offer something they would want: money. And if they never picked it up, well, the club could do something besides add to the trophy stash. A club south of us (the old Toledo club) had cash for a while. But our club was bigger, more active, and we practiced more. We spent a whole year going down there and taking most of their money. More than once, every single dollar awarded went to a member of my home club. They went the other way, and offered plaques, to avoid the embarassment. (Hey, it's my story, I'll assign motives as I see fit.) How much? The top shooter could come away from a well-attended monthly club match with more than fifty, 1986-era dollars. (Top Overall, and Top in class) I think the biggest check I ever signed was for close to $120. One of our top shooters simply stashed the cash in a jar, and used it to finance his annual Second Chance expeditions. When I heard that, I started to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Which reminds me of Second Chance. I know most of you have heard of it, but perhaps you have not been told how loot-rich an environment it was. Richard tried to have ten good prizes in each category, and in some categories, in many years, there were at least ten guns. You could enter any and all Optional events you qualified for. You couldn't just wear a skirt and shoot in the Ladies Main Event, or with your buddy in Mixed Doubles. But you could shoot a s**tload of events. At last count, there were seventeen or eighteen events and optionals. Richard gave away almost 250 guns at the peak. My club was quite active. We had our own tables, we had winter leagues, and spring pin shoots. In the warm weather months leading up to June, you practically had to reserve time on the pin range for practice. Our best year, we took 24 guns out of Second Chance. And we had as many members place "on the table" but not score a gun. The prize distribution was simple: if you placed in an event, you got to walk to the table and select something, in the order of finish. Thus, the most common question at SC was "Are you on the table?" The Main Events were split between Master Blasters and Ordinary Standard Shooters. but the optionals weren't in scoring, just in prizes. For an optional like 9-pin, the Top shooter (almost always an MB would go first, then he'd be followed by the top OSS, then the 2nd MB, then the 2nd OSS until the prizes were gone. The scores were posted each day, and if your standing slipped you could go and re-enter and try to post a better time. Or a better tie-breaker. And on top of everything else, Richard would ask trivia quesitons, and throw prizes to the winner: a box or two of ammo, cleaning supplies, magazines, parts, etc. One year, the crowd went nuts trying to answer a trivia question when the prize was a like-new Colt M4 barrel. You also got raffle tickets with your trivia prize (and loot-table trip) for the final drawing: a rebuilt Mercedes from Richard's personal stock. God, I miss that shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Patrick, As I have had the advantage of hearing many of your other tales over the years I think this thread is one of the better threads on this site! Please keep it going. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 17, 2005 Author Share Posted February 17, 2005 Rob, A member for over a year and a half, and you've got 2 posts? You're seriously holding down the group average. And there will be a boatload more guns for test-firing this year, so keep the calendar open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 Woof? Patrick, do I have his picture sitting here on my desk? (G&A's The Complete "Book" of the 1911) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now