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Patrick Sweeney

The Early Days of IPSC

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Yea, the guy who got hit (Jim Blevins, I wonder what ever happened to him) later built a ".38 super beater" .45 ACP. It was a just under government model-length gun with slide-profile comp, where the slide was shorter than a commander slide. Very fast cycling. However, to keep up with the Supers, he worked up Major loads (I think Major might have been, like, 185 back then) using lightweight .45 bullets; 152 grains. That was the first super-loud gun we'd ever encountered. No one wanted to RO Jim when it came his turn to shoot. I wasn't using plugs and muffs to shoot rifle in 3-gun, but I started wearing both to RO him.

The 152s in a .45 were popular for a while (mid to late 80's), until everyone who had a .45 but wanted to remain competitive gave it up and built a Super. This was still pre hi-cap, so the difference was between a 9-round .45 and an 11-round Super. Once we built the Super, we turned our .45/152 guns into 9-pin guns for Second Chance, running about a 135-140 PF.

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My brother tells me of the days when the eight round magazines were for gamers! The martial artists all used seven rounders, usually with 200gr LSWC loaded to whatever was major back then.

Should we blame Devel for creating the equipment race? :lol:

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Blame the deceased Charlie Kelsey former Pres and owner of Devel...all us gamers used them and shot 5.7 gr of WW231 under a 200 gr LSWC H&G #68

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Gamer! My brother's old faithful load is 5.8gr of WW231 under the same bullet.

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Yea, until the real gamers found out that that cool new powder (452AA) had an inverse relationship to temperature. What was Major in the summer turned into bowling pin +P+ loads in the winter. They simply switched to a high-zoot singlestack Super.

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Holy crap, I just read this thread all the way through and was unable to breath reading the stories about SC. I wish I had been there to see it. :)

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There's lots more. If I could charge you guys......waitaminit, I am a gunwriter! Now I need to convince an Editor I can do decades worth of "Me & Skeeter" type columns.

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Patrick,

I'll subscribe.

Thanks for the freebies in the meantime.

TomB

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Patrick,

I'll subscribe.

Thanks for the freebies in the meantime.

TomB

Me also!

Thread Drift.... Barrettone where in the HELL did you come up with that Avator? OH - I think I answered my own question.... ;)

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One of those "Star Wars Geek" forums...pretty cool-huh? Gotta love those sci-fi groupies!!!! :D

Jeff

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Yea, until the real gamers found out that that cool new powder (452AA) had an inverse relationship to temperature. What was Major in the summer turned into bowling pin +P+ loads in the winter. They simply switched to a high-zoot singlestack Super.

Holy crap! I remember that! Nothing quite like seeing a guy run to stuff his ammo under his car's a/c vent before it was chronographed. :lol:

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Moplans

thought I was the only one who knew about the

A/C trick and 452AA....used it for yrs...loved it... :lol:;)

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Oh, you want gamer options, from the days of "pure IPSC and survivalism?" How about this: In the early days, when chronographs were either ferociously expensive or tediously difficult to operate, we all operated on "close enough." Was someones ammo Major? Set up a popper, set it "heavy" and if your ammo took it over, it was close enough. Factory ammo got a pass. If it was factory, it was Major, right?

Those of us with chronographs knew better. So when we'd go to a match where we knew there'd be a test popper, we'd dip into our stash of factory "hardball." My favorite, a multi-case lot I bought cheap, was a batch of Remington 230 made in 1969, which chronographed at (are you ready for this) 716 fps! In an era of 185 PF for Major, I had stealth ammo that posted just under 165. Was I the only one? Not hardly. At every other club (including ours) you'd see shooters loading magazines from boxes of loose, reloaded ammo. At that other club, everyone loaded from factory boxes, which I'm sure they had all checked for low PF.

Gaming? You bet. But that club had determined their process, and I was just going with it. When I became President of my IPSC club, we determined that we were either going to chrono everyone, and factory didn't get a pass, or we were simply going to ignore PF until someone obviously was under, and then we'd start chronoing again. Since we were also shooting pins, no one bothered trying to squeak wimp ammo past us. After shooting 200PF ammo on pins, anything less was easy.

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Hey Patrick...they are still doing it...watched them load from different zip lock bags at the last match I went to.... :P

The guys I watched said it was a local match and everyone did it.. :lol:

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OKay ... did any of you old timers ever shoot at clubs at that ran their ranges hot in the old days? If so, were there any problems?

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Just wanting to know how common it was. I'm getting some e-mail from some people who have shot ISPC since the late 70s who never saw a hot range.

I still think hot ranges are at least as safe as cold ranges, perhaps more so in a lot of situations.

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I've shot in a hot range in a few matches. I really don't see any difference, except from my experience, it has helped things run smoother.

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I can use this nostalgia trip.....

:D

Where can I get H&G 68s? I came across some last year and they're freakin' awesome with an old Bullseye load an old-school USPSA guy I shot with in grad school gave me. He used to use Valiant 200 gr. .451s until they stopped making them, and he said they were as close to the old H&Gs as he could find. The ones I got were hard, though- not much fouling for lead. If anyone makes molds I'd be happy but I'd rather have the bullets.

Sorry for the thread drift- you may proceed.

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There are many companies selling that type of bullet. The H&G 68 moniker is just the name of the original Hensley & Gibbs mold. I've been very pleased with the Laser-Cast 200-gr. LSWC. Harder than the hinges of hell, zero leading.

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Jeez, am I the only guy who obsesses about making power factor and would never, ever shoot a match with something I knew wasn't making pf?

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