Strange Occurrence/Question

[Nik Habicht]

Just a question......at a monthly match. RO is running shooter. They are 10 feet down range of start position. Clipboard RO is 3ft away at 4 o'clock. RO is watching gun and shooter. Clipboard is watching feet and 180. Ok? Now OD shooter starts walk through 10 feet behind them....how do the RO's see it, much less stop it?

It's a small stage...maybe 10 targets, small arrays. Should only need 2 RO's.

Should not the OD shooter be 100% in the wrong?

Sure. Does that absolve the stage staff from noticing more than the gun/shooter or feet/180? My head's pretty much on a swivel when I RO, and my peripheral vision still works.....

If I'm the clipboard RO, I often try to work at an angle, so I can keep an eye on what's going on behind me as well.....

How about we work toward the pursuit of excellence rather than pursuing the lowest common denominator?

[whitedog]

I agree...asking how others handle it. I also look around while RO. I believe as RO's we "own the stage" and should look out for every ones safety.

[ktm300]

The closest thing to this I have seen was a table start stage where the on deck shooter went ahead and made ready placing his gun on the table while the previous shooter was still shooting. Nobody really noticed until after pasting when there was a gun sitting on the table.

Can I assume the OD guy that put his gun on the table got a trip to DQ?

[lawboy]

I just learned something from this discussion. When I am ROing, nobody but the shooter will be allowed on the stage. Period. OD shooter can rehearse in his head OFF the stage. I will be announcing this from now on. The incident described here is just plain frightening. DOWN RANGE of the shooter during the stage run!!! Oh. My. God!

[RammerJammer]

The closest thing to this I have seen was a table start stage where the on deck shooter went ahead and made ready placing his gun on the table while the previous shooter was still shooting. Nobody really noticed until after pasting when there was a gun sitting on the table.

Can I assume the OD guy that put his gun on the table got a trip to DQ?

Oh yeah... Everyone was just severly shocked that nobody noticed his whole make ready routine. He went to the house after having his gun cleared for him.

[Sheep]

I just learned something from this discussion. When I am ROing, nobody but the shooter will be allowed on the stage. Period. OD shooter can rehearse in his head OFF the stage. I will be announcing this from now on. The incident described here is just plain frightening. DOWN RANGE of the shooter during the stage run!!! Oh. My. God!

I think that is a great idea and a positive outcome for this thread......Thanks!!

[CZinSC]

I think it is a major over reaction to this situation. In no way am I minimizing the situation that occured. But to prevent the OD from stepping foot on the stage? That’s ridiculous.

Should this have happened? No. Could it have been prevented by the staff on this stage? Possibly. I wasn’t there, so I won’t throw them under the bus and say it was their fault, like many of you are doing.

If you want to DQ any OD shooter that does this in the future, I’m OK with that. Shooters need to be responsible for their gun handling, as well as their presence on the range. ( But make sure you make a rule that is Black and white )

But to penalize ALL the rest of us, that have not commited this mistake, and probably never will, well that’s ridiculous.

[JAFO]

The closest thing to this I have seen was a table start stage where the on deck shooter went ahead and made ready placing his gun on the table while the previous shooter was still shooting. Nobody really noticed until after pasting when there was a gun sitting on the table.

Can I assume the OD guy that put his gun on the table got a trip to DQ?

Oh yeah... Everyone was just severly shocked that nobody noticed his whole make ready routine. He went to the house after having his gun cleared for him.

This just happened at a match last month. The OD shooter took his gun out on for a table start while the RO and the rest of the squad were downrange taping/resetting. It sucks that he got DQ'd on his first stage without firing a shot, but it would have sucked a lot more if someone had gotten hurt.

[Sheep]

Heck, I don't know CZ. That's why I brought it up.

I could see feasibility in not letting a up coming shooter rehearse a stage from 'make ready' to 'range is clear'. Pasters/score keepers on the range should certainly be aware of where the shooter is and what he is doing- a shooter rehearsing is probably in a different mindset.

It was as innocent as pasting an un-scored target, but as dangerous as breaking the 180. The consensus seems to be that it should go unpunished.....still not sure if I agree with that or not.

It was a dumba$$ bone headed move.

[Thomas H]

I think it is a major over reaction to this situation. In no way am I minimizing the situation that occured. But to prevent the OD from stepping foot on the stage? That’s ridiculous.

Should this have happened? No. Could it have been prevented by the staff on this stage? Possibly. I wasn’t there, so I won’t throw them under the bus and say it was their fault, like many of you are doing.

If you want to DQ any OD shooter that does this in the future, I’m OK with that. Shooters need to be responsible for their gun handling, as well as their presence on the range. ( But make sure you make a rule that is Black and white )

But to penalize ALL the rest of us, that have not commited this mistake, and probably never will, well that’s ridiculous.

Really? Huh. It really would never have occurred to me to LET the on-deck shooter into the shooting area when the CURRENT shooter was still running the stage.

(That's why this whole thread has surprised me.) I suppose in the past, in a multi-string classifier stage where later strings are forward, I've not commented on people standing at the farther-back shooting points. But for a regular field stage---the only ones in the shooting area are the shooter, and the ROs.

To my way of thinking, I have no idea what the shooter is going to do. As such---everyone else better be out of the way. I will occasionally let a person follow the RO with a video camera---but they need to keep an eye on the RO, and back up quickly if necessary. I personally think it is an incredibly bad idea to let the OD shooter in the shooting area, because they WON'T be paying attention to the shooter---they'll be concentrating on their stage plan. If the shooter needs to move back in a weird direction, of course they won't notice.

So---no, I don't think that running a stage this way penalizes anyone. And I'm amazed that people let anyone other than the shooter in the shooting area.

I note that I don't necessarily consider this situation the RO's fault. It is the OD shooter's fault. This situation, however, is the shared responsibility of both the RO staff and the OD shooter.

[Poppa Bear]

I generally do not see the OD shooter practicing their start unless the stage is one where you need to take 2 or 3 steps one way or the other to engage the first array. I do not ever recall seeing the OD shooter advance into the shooting area until after the active shooter has finished the stage.

[GrumpyOne]

Am I missing something here? Did not everyone get the opportunity to air gun the stage at the walk through? I am of the opinion that once the walkthrough is completed, there will be no more walkthroughs for that squad for that stage. If the shooter wants to air gun a few targets at MR, then that is his prerogative, but as far as others (OD, H, DH), they should wait their turn at being the shooter before setting foot on the stage, other than to tape or reset. The RO's own the stage, with the current shooter leasing it until all targets are taped and/or reset.

3.2.4 After the written stage briefing has been read to competitors, and questions arising there from have been answered, competitors should be permitted to conduct an orderly inspection (walkthrough) of the course of fire. The duration of time for the inspection must be stipulated by the Range Officer, and it should be the same for all competitors. If the course of fire includes moving targets or similar items, these should be demonstrated to all competitors for the same duration and frequency.

Edit to add rule.

Edited September 5, 2013 by GrumpyOne

[jester121]

The mention of interference in

8.6.2 Any person providing interference or unauthorized assistance to a competitor

during a course of fire (and the competitor receiving such assistance)

may, at the discretion of a Range Officer, incur a procedural

penalty for that stage and/or be subject to Section 10.6.

would seem to open the door to assessing a procedural, or open the door to unsportsmanlike conduct.

It's weird that 10.6.2 and its mention of interference only seem to apply to non-competitors, at least the way I read it.