ktm300 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 All this turn into or away from the gun amuses me. The only difference is into the gun if you draw early the RO may have a harder time seeing it one is not better than the other Not on that stage way it was set up. But, you were there and shot it, right? Did he shoot the stage? Looking into the "8 ball", here comes the reply.... Signs point to no. :-)No I didn't shoot the stage, our was more of a generic statement, 90° is the same either way. I was going to argue with you but when I look at it logically you need to turn the same amount to get past the 90 either way you turn so........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 All this turn into or away from the gun amuses me. The only difference is into the gun if you draw early the RO may have a harder time seeing it one is not better than the other Not on that stage way it was set up. But, you were there and shot it, right? Did he shoot the stage? Looking into the "8 ball", here comes the reply.... Signs point to no. :-)No I didn't shoot the stage, our was more of a generic statement, 90° is the same either way.But it wasnt a 90 or 180 degree turn. If you drew CW to the target on the right side it was about 225 degrees, then a turn back the the left target of about 90 degrees. Most right handers went to the left corner so the left target could be shot moving to that corner which is why most shot the right target first. Turning CCW gave you about a 135 degree turn for the first shot followed by the same 90 for the second target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Back to "Nils case"... A buddy of mine was on that range when Nils shot the stage 28. There are no doubts that the reload came from a Front pocket. The RO didn't see it, good for Nils. And videos can not be considered as a proof, so ...... There is no doubt Nils reloaded from a pocket, the doubt is whether it was rear of his hip. It's difficult to tell, but I think it was. It was definitely not one of the front pockets. All front pockets have openings exactly at the hip bone line so he can always make that excuse and if i remember it right, the rules state that it must be done in the REAR pocket not side not front but REAR! Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Back to "Nils case"... A buddy of mine was on that range when Nils shot the stage 28. There are no doubts that the reload came from a Front pocket. The RO didn't see it, good for Nils. And videos can not be considered as a proof, so ...... There is no doubt Nils reloaded from a pocket, the doubt is whether it was rear of his hip. It's difficult to tell, but I think it was. It was definitely not one of the front pockets. All front pockets have openings exactly at the hip bone line so he can always make that excuse and if i remember it right, the rules state that it must be done in the REAR pocket not side not front but REAR!Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Rear of the hip or rear of the pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Back to "Nils case"... A buddy of mine was on that range when Nils shot the stage 28. There are no doubts that the reload came from a Front pocket. The RO didn't see it, good for Nils. And videos can not be considered as a proof, so ...... There is no doubt Nils reloaded from a pocket, the doubt is whether it was rear of his hip. It's difficult to tell, but I think it was. It was definitely not one of the front pockets. All front pockets have openings exactly at the hip bone line so he can always make that excuse and if i remember it right, the rules state that it must be done in the REAR pocket not side not front but REAR!Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Rear of the hip or rear of the pants? Rear pockets of shorts or trousers Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Back to "Nils case"... A buddy of mine was on that range when Nils shot the stage 28. There are no doubts that the reload came from a Front pocket. The RO didn't see it, good for Nils. And videos can not be considered as a proof, so ...... There is no doubt Nils reloaded from a pocket, the doubt is whether it was rear of his hip. It's difficult to tell, but I think it was. It was definitely not one of the front pockets. All front pockets have openings exactly at the hip bone line so he can always make that excuse and if i remember it right, the rules state that it must be done in the REAR pocket not side not front but REAR!Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Rear of the hip or rear of the pants? Rear pockets of shorts or trousers Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD How many rear pockets can a pair of trousers have? If there are multiple, how do you know which are the correct ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Back to "Nils case"... A buddy of mine was on that range when Nils shot the stage 28. There are no doubts that the reload came from a Front pocket. The RO didn't see it, good for Nils. And videos can not be considered as a proof, so ...... There is no doubt Nils reloaded from a pocket, the doubt is whether it was rear of his hip. It's difficult to tell, but I think it was. It was definitely not one of the front pockets.All front pockets have openings exactly at the hip bone line so he can always make that excuse and if i remember it right, the rules state that it must be done in the REAR pocket not side not front but REAR!Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD Rear of the hip or rear of the pants?Rear pockets of shorts or trousersSent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk HD How many rear pockets can a pair of trousers have? If there are multiple, how do you know which are the correct ones? As long as its in the rear you're good to go. I suggest you read the ipsc rules, its pretty easy to understandSent from my Xiaomi Mi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have read them. It just says "rear pockets." There can be multiple rear pockets. If Nils drew the magazine from one of the rear pockets he's good to go, wouldn't you agree? Or are you thinking there is a definition of "rear pocket" that isn't in the rule book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 For Standard if its behind the hip bone then its a rear pocket because it complies with the magazine placement requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have read them. It just says "rear pockets." There can be multiple rear pockets. If Nils drew the magazine from one of the rear pockets he's good to go, wouldn't you agree? Or are you thinking there is a definition of "rear pocket" that isn't in the rule book?As i see it in the video he made it in the front and let us say he has 10 rear pockets in his shorts he can get a mag in any of those and thats ok. All of my shorts including my buddies have 2 rear pockets. I dont know about nils and yoursSent from my Xiaomi Mi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 For Standard if its behind the hip bone then its a rear pocket because it complies with the magazine placement requirements.Thats equipment placement and if i understand it correctly, shorts are not considered equipmentSent from my Xiaomi Mi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Here are the closing comments from the GV on this subject: :" Posted Today, 08:33 AM Hi folks, As I'm not one to listen to, or rely on, rumours, hearsay or similar nonsense, I emailed Nils Jonasson and asked him point blank if he drew the subject mag from his front pocket. His prompt reply was "I was forced to load from a pocket after exhausting all available mags on my belt. However not from a front or rear pocket but a middle pocket, which sits directly on the hipbone line". As far as I'm concerned, this matter is closed ......... and so is this thread." Author: Vince Pinto IPSC Secretary "Today" = 3 Nov 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have read them. It just says "rear pockets." There can be multiple rear pockets. If Nils drew the magazine from one of the rear pockets he's good to go, wouldn't you agree? Or are you thinking there is a definition of "rear pocket" that isn't in the rule book?As i see it in the video he made it in the front and let us say he has 10 rear pockets in his shorts he can get a mag in any of those and thats ok. All of my shorts including my buddies have 2 rear pockets. I dont know about nils and yoursSent from my Xiaomi Mi3 I don't think you are seeing what you think you saw in the video. It's pretty clear he loaded from a pocket on the side of his shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have read them. It just says "rear pockets." There can be multiple rear pockets. If Nils drew the magazine from one of the rear pockets he's good to go, wouldn't you agree? Or are you thinking there is a definition of "rear pocket" that isn't in the rule book?As i see it in the video he made it in the front and let us say he has 10 rear pockets in his shorts he can get a mag in any of those and thats ok. All of my shorts including my buddies have 2 rear pockets. I dont know about nils and yoursSent from my Xiaomi Mi3 I don't think you are seeing what you think you saw in the video. It's pretty clear he loaded from a pocket on the side of his shorts. Where in the rules can you see that you are allowed to reload fr the side pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It says rear pocket, which are known as "hip pockets" in many places. I take "rear" to mean behind the hip bone line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Where in the rules can you see that you are allowed to reload fr the side pocket? You should probably go ask Vince... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Where in the rules can you see that you are allowed to reload fr the side pocket?You should probably go ask Vince... He closed the thread hahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It says rear pocket, which are known as "hip pockets" in many places. I take "rear" to mean behind the hip bone line. No more mag pouches for me if thats the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beltjones Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It says rear pocket, which are known as "hip pockets" in many places. I take "rear" to mean behind the hip bone line. No more mag pouches for me if thats the case Let me know how that works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 It says rear pocket, which are known as "hip pockets" in many places. I take "rear" to mean behind the hip bone line.No more mag pouches for me if thats the case Let me know how that works out for you. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Where in the rules can you see that you are allowed to reload fr the side pocket?You should probably go ask Vince... He closed the thread hahaha! I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Where in the rules can you see that you are allowed to reload fr the side pocket?You should probably go ask Vince... He closed the thread hahaha! I know Bec he doesnt wanna ne asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbet83 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I just want to congratulate Nils Jonasson on being the 2014 IPSC World Shoot Standard Division Champion. That's an achievement and title that you'll have for the rest of your life. Man look at that big shiny gold trophy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 yes, congratulations nils. ultimately (I hate to say this so much) I agree with bonglee that rear pocket means the pockets on your arse. BUT and it's a bit BUT (no pun intended) in this case it matters for nothing for a number of reasons. 1, he wasn't called on it which means either the RO didn't see, or felt it was within his view of the rules of what a 'rear' pocket is. 2. it has such little bearing on the outcome as to be meaningless. let's say he put a mag in his rear (bum) pocket and took that one instead. whould it make a difference? I doubt more than 0.1 or 0.2 of a second. and the third and most important reason? it's over. he won. he won by shooting the best balance between speed and accuracy. not by having magic pockets. and being someone patriotic I have to say congratulations to the Australians who did well and there were a few but in particular for Brodie to achieve 3rd in open is a fantastic achievement. There is no such thing as a 'professional' shooter in my country. The top guys all have to have other full time jobs/careers to support their shooting. Australia also had top lady in open with Karla Blowers. well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 yes, congratulations nils. ultimately (I hate to say this so much) I agree with bonglee that rear pocket means the pockets on your arse. BUT and it's a bit BUT (no pun intended) in this case it matters for nothing for a number of reasons. 1, he wasn't called on it which means either the RO didn't see, or felt it was within his view of the rules of what a 'rear' pocket is. 2. it has such little bearing on the outcome as to be meaningless. let's say he put a mag in his rear (bum) pocket and took that one instead. whould it make a difference? I doubt more than 0.1 or 0.2 of a second. and the third and most important reason? it's over. he won. he won by shooting the best balance between speed and accuracy. not by having magic pockets. and being someone patriotic I have to say congratulations to the Australians who did well and there were a few but in particular for Brodie to achieve 3rd in open is a fantastic achievement. There is no such thing as a 'professional' shooter in my country. The top guys all have to have other full time jobs/careers to support their shooting. Australia also had top lady in open with Karla Blowers. well done. Yup and this is about rules and not about personalities. Its a bump to open if the ro saw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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