Best .38 ? Colt Minor 130 PF Load

[pskys2]

Hey let's change it up. Will probably go to the Dark Side of Revo next year or 2, maybe.

If USPSA goes to the 8 shot minor next year, and trying to find components so I can work on the new one this winter what would be the best likely load for 130 PF for USPSA Revolver? ICORE loads run 5 PF lighter than USPSA so I'll be wanting a load over 130 PF, probably go with 132+, don't like to cut it too close on Minor!

List advantages and disadvantages for yours. I'm really obsessed with accuracy, as I try to own my misses and don't want them to be the gun. One of the reasons it's taken so long to get comfortable with my .45 acp Revo loads, now that I do they may go and change the field.

[jeremy kemlo]

I like 160gr bayou bullets, long colt brass, I forget the length but the bullet is seated to just before the bullet tappers, and 3.3 gr of clays.

[jhgtyre]

Short Colt with 4.6 gr WST and a 142 gr Montana Gold conical comes in at about 133 in my 627 and the wife's 686. Very clean and soft shooting.

-ld

[Wagonburner]

The Montana's are great when available,the Berrys 124 thick plate 9mm are .356 and group well in my short colts

[Carmoney]

Short Colt with 4.6 gr WST and a 142 gr Montana Gold conical comes in at about 133 in my 627 and the wife's 686. Very clean and soft shooting.

-ld

Larry, what OAL are you using with the 142s?

[pskys2]

Have a new 627 PC and the Action Job is done and running 5 1/2 lbs with the transfer bar and NO lock, chamfered cylinder, trimmed the hammer but left it intact for now. Actually like the Factory Rear Sight it's taller than the Millet/Weigands and only .003 tighter than the Millet. Swapped in a FO Serrated .250" FS. The FP was as long as a CS and without the pointed tip almost as long as the Apex. Left it in also. Darn thing seems to be a tack driver.

I'm actually working up loads. Have some Ramshot Competition and WST but haven't tried them yet.

Using .38 Short Starline Brass, F100 Primers here's what I have so far.

Definitely needs 357 or 358 bullets. Tried some 147 .356 Berry RN and they went all over. Right now it's looking like 160 Bayou RN with 3.0 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL with a .370 Roll Crimp runs at 850 f/s 136PF and is a tack driver. Also using 158 Berry RN with 3.2 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL and a .368 Roll Crimp for 860 f/s 136PF, but doesn't seem as accurate. Have 50 loaded for some serious accuracy work after the A3. Does seem to like the Roll Crimp though with Berry and even with the Bayou. The only thing with the Bayou's is it's got a very small flat on the nose. But it doesn't seem to hurt the reloads.

Since it's maiden match will be an NRA Action Pistol Match, plan on using a 148 Berry DEWC in .357 Mag Starline cases and 4.3 Clays at 900 f/s, a bit hot but it's what I had loaded for a M28. It seems to love the combo. Tried some in .38 Short Colt cases and they worked just as well, but would have to adjust the dies, while the .357 dies are set.

Now if Dave Hearth just doesn't get too wild on his vacation, I'll have 60 New Hearthco Clips about mid August! 8 Shot Dave 8 Shot!

If I could just find an ICORE Club, Mike be ready I'm getting all Jiggy for your Midwest Regional next year. New Gun and Loads feels like Christmas already.

Edited July 31, 2013 by pskys2

[Dragon11]

Action Job done and running 5 1/2 lbs with the transfer bar and NO lock, chamfered cylinder, trimmed the hammer but left it intact for now. Actually like the Factory Rear Sight it's taller than the Millet/Weigands and only .003 tighter than the Millet. Swapped in a FO Serrated .250" FS. Darn thing seems to be a tack driver.

I'm actually working up loads. Have some Ramshot Competition and WST but haven't tried them yet.

Using .38 Short Starline Brass, F100 Primers here's what I have so far.

Definitely needs 357 or 358 bullets. Tried some 147 .356 Berry RN and they went all over. Right now it's looking like 160 Bayou RN with 3.0 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL with a .370 Roll Crimp runs at 850 f/s 136PF and is a tack driver. Also using 158 Berry RN with 3.2 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL and a .368 Roll Crimp for 860 f/s 136PF, but doesn't seem as accurate. Have 50 loaded for some serious accuracy work after the A3. Does seem to like the Roll Crimp though with Berry and even with the Bayou. The only thing with the Bayou's is it's got a very small flat on the nose. But it doesn't seem to hurt the reloads.

Since it's maiden match will be an NRA Action Pistol Match, plan on using a 148 Berry DEWC in .357 Mag Starline cases and 4.3 Clays at 900 f/s, a bit hot but it's what I had loaded for a M28. It seems to love the combo.

Now if Dave Hearth just doesn't get too wild on his vacation, I'll have 60 New Hearthco Clips about mid August!

Is it better to use Titegroup or Clays for short colt? I have been loading 160 Bayou's with 3.0 of Clays, 1.200 overall. I'm happy with them, getting a little over 130 power factor. But I still worry about over pressure problems.

[jhgtyre]

Short Colt with 4.6 gr WST and a 142 gr Montana Gold conical comes in at about 133 in my 627 and the wife's 686. Very clean and soft shooting.

-ld

Larry, what OAL are you using with the 142s?

1.169 is what it measures out to. I seated one till it started to bulge and then backed it up a bit. The round looks funny because it isn't seated anywhere near the cannelure but so far so good as far as function.

-ld

[pskys2]

Action Job done and running 5 1/2 lbs with the transfer bar and NO lock, chamfered cylinder, trimmed the hammer but left it intact for now. Actually like the Factory Rear Sight it's taller than the Millet/Weigands and only .003 tighter than the Millet. Swapped in a FO Serrated .250" FS. Darn thing seems to be a tack driver.

I'm actually working up loads. Have some Ramshot Competition and WST but haven't tried them yet.

Using .38 Short Starline Brass, F100 Primers here's what I have so far.

Definitely needs 357 or 358 bullets. Tried some 147 .356 Berry RN and they went all over. Right now it's looking like 160 Bayou RN with 3.0 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL with a .370 Roll Crimp runs at 850 f/s 136PF and is a tack driver. Also using 158 Berry RN with 3.2 Titegroup at 1.145 OAL and a .368 Roll Crimp for 860 f/s 136PF, but doesn't seem as accurate. Have 50 loaded for some serious accuracy work after the A3. Does seem to like the Roll Crimp though with Berry and even with the Bayou. The only thing with the Bayou's is it's got a very small flat on the nose. But it doesn't seem to hurt the reloads.

Since it's maiden match will be an NRA Action Pistol Match, plan on using a 148 Berry DEWC in .357 Mag Starline cases and 4.3 Clays at 900 f/s, a bit hot but it's what I had loaded for a M28. It seems to love the combo.

Now if Dave Hearth just doesn't get too wild on his vacation, I'll have 60 New Hearthco Clips about mid August!

Is it better to use Titegroup or Clays for short colt? I have been loading 160 Bayou's with 3.0 of Clays, 1.200 overall. I'm happy with them, getting a little over 130 power factor. But I still worry about over pressure problems.

I've got 16 lbs of clays and have been told it's a pressure issue in the short colt case. So I haven't tried it. The Titegroup burns clean but haven't shot enough in this caliber to say how hot it will get. I use it in my m29 with russians and it works good. In 4my 625 5 acp it seems to get real hot though.

One reason I have the other 2 powders to work with once I can spend some time with it.

[alecmc]

3.2 grains of N320 / 1.175" / 160grain bayou bullet got me 128 power factor out of a 5" barrel today. accuracy was great, nailing them on top of each other.

[hearthco]

No rest for Hearthco

[DougCarden]

For accuracy the Billy 170 with VV340 does 2in at 50. about 3.7 grains and seat to your comfort factor.

3.6 VV 320 with 147-150 is safe Minor load for ICORE. 1.140 OAL seems to work well accuracy wise.

You will be within a tenth or so using SOLO 1000/320 data....

I taper crimp my shorts and have never had to roll crimp. I don't know if it would help or not.

Clays is not a good powder for heavy bullets (147 up) I tried it and now will only use VV 310 for 125PF or below with 147-150s.

SOLO and VV320 is a better powder for USPSA minor and giving you a comfortable cushion for ICORE.

Hope this is helpful....

DougC

[pskys2]

Well I don't like WST and Competition, they're leaving granules in the chambers. It gets worse, as expected, as the pressure/velocity falls off.

The other thing showing up seems to be a consistent loss of velocity as the gun/ambient temps heat up. At 90 degrees the first cylinder with Competition goes at 858, the second at 843 and then as I did accuracy testing it started getting dirtier, more granules, as the gun got hot.

So, I'm going to try 3.0 of Titegroup, which gave 851 with new cases, and see if it drops also. And, hopefully Doug is exaggerating a bit, 2.9 Clays.

All with what's left of my 160 Bayou's at 1.160 OAL.

[seanc]

I like 160gr bayou bullets, long colt brass, I forget the length but the bullet is seated to just before the bullet tappers, and 3.3 gr of clays.

this is pretty much my icore load, in every 627 i have shot it from it is a 790fps load which is 126pf.

ymmv, but it will need more love to make 132pf.

[S&WIowegan]

Well I don't like WST and Competition, they're leaving granules in the chambers. It gets worse, as expected, as the pressure/velocity falls off.

The other thing showing up seems to be a consistent loss of velocity as the gun/ambient temps heat up. At 90 degrees the first cylinder with Competition goes at 858, the second at 843 and then as I did accuracy testing it started getting dirtier, more granules, as the gun got hot.

So, I'm going to try 3.0 of Titegroup, which gave 851 with new cases, and see if it drops also. And, hopefully Doug is exaggerating a bit, 2.9 Clays.

All with what's left of my 160 Bayou's at 1.160 OAL.

I learned the hard way that WST fizzles out in hot, sunny weather. I went minor in a match one summer with ammo that had consistently chronoed strong major. When I asked people, shotgun handloaders said they kept WST ammo in a cooler at matches to avoid the problem. I use TiteGroup to make minor with 135gr Billy bullets...I can almost hear the loud CRACK they make! I seat at 1.20" because of the long ogive on Billys and boy do they drop in fast.

[jhgtyre]

Since no place I go is hotter than where I live WST chronos pretty well for me. If you don't live in a heat sink you might try upping the power factor when using WST.

[pskys2]

Clays and Titegroup both made 840+, even hot, no pressure signs and great accuracy. Clays burns super clean and Titegroup is just a bit less so but better than WST or Competition.

[mikeAZ]

Getting started in revolver shooting (again, at age 71 +). I have both Clays and Titegroup powder on hand. Since I have 6 1/2 #'s of Clays just sitting, I'd like to use it up... I only want one load for USPSA & ICORE so I'm thinking I'll need about 132 PFactor to cover both?...Billy bullets is local for me so I can try several bullet weights/ od's.. I understand that Clays can have pressure problems if too heavy a bullet is used. I'm leaning toward Billy's 135's. I plan on using 38 special cases and have toyed with the thought of using trimmed cases for 38 short Colt for faster/easier reloading???...Eye sight and old age demands a red dot, so I'll be in "open"..(Jerry "M" won't have to worry). Your thoughts??..

[Classic_jon]

I have actually been having good results with N32C (tinstar) at 4.2gr with the 160gr Bayou RN in my 686. It shoots uber soft. Don't have it here in front of me but it is seated pretty short at 1.4ish

Edited August 27, 2013 by Classic_jon

[DougCarden]

Try the CLAYS....start around 3.0 grains. get your PF you need. If you start getting sticky extraction then you will need to back down the load....

DougC

PS....if you are using a Dillon powder measure be careful going lower than 2.9 ish in the measure. You can get "bridging" of the large flakes and the powder drops will be funky and you will have some poofers....FYI

[pskys2]

Using 160 Bayou's at 1.160 OAL and 3.0 grains of Titegroup gave me 846/135pf with and 2.8 Clays gave me 842/135pf both on a 95 deg. day. Clays is cleaner, but Titegroup was almost as good and more accurate. FWIW I always avg 5 and if I want 2.8, I'll adjust until the 5 = 14.2-14.4.

Edited August 27, 2013 by pskys2