Why n320?

[tnshoot]

So heres my situation.

Like many others, I've gone well past VV recommended max of 4.0g under a 124fmj to reach minor pf. Or more specifically to hit 1050 fps so I have a little cushion.

My question is how come so many people are sold on this powder when it looks like a low to mid load of 330 or 340 would easily produce these velocities with no pressure concerns at all? Is there something specific (recoil impulse, clean burn, etc....) that you get with 320 and not with the others that make it so desirable?

And because you'll ask anyway.

4.3g under MG 124 fmj is getting me just below 1050fps in a Sti edge and I'm not about to load it any hotter

Any suggestions, experiences, insights would be appreciated although "i shoot 4.x in my gun all the time and havent blown my hand off yet" probably isnt going to convince me to keep working with this powder.

Otherwise I think I'm looking for some 340

[sandrooney]

Tightgroup

[Yelrdog]

I started the following topic based on the same issue...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=176621

I have only loaded workup loads up to the 4.0 max recommendation and failed to make minor on my chronograph. Based on the responses to that topic, looks like lots of guys use up to about 4.4 gr under a 124 gr 9mm.

I'm with you though. What makes N320 so special that we would not only want to pay about double what other powders cost, but also have to load fat doses of powder to make PF? I'll finish up the 4 Lbs I have and probably stick with something else long term.

[Paul-the new guy]

I use it because all the cool kids use it. since powder is such a small part of the eguation price isn't really an issue. The cost amounts to about $5.00 per thousand higher than comparable lower priced powders. I use N-320 to load 9mm, .40 and .45 works well for all of them and I only have 1 powder to deal with...

[CZ85Combat]

My load is MG 124jhp 3.9gn N320 at OAL 1.100 1040fps avj. in a CZ 75 SP01shadow.

N320 runs clean. I have used N330 but at the lower end 4.4gn it does not burn as clean. With N320 you load at close to max, so it burns clean, has low SD (7-9),meters well & is accurate.

[tnshoot]

I have no problem with the cost as it really is a small part of the equation. And I do like how clean it is.

Somebody more knowledgeable than myself help me out here. Am I correct in thinking that in my particular situation my best option for this gun is to move to a slightly slower powder? I'm just not comfortable loading 10% over published max to get the velocity I'm looking for with 320. From what I read in VVs load data I think a mid-high load of 330 or light-mid load of 340 will get me where I need to be. Sound about right?

Next comes the challenge of actually finding some!

[XDman]

My load: 3.9gr N320, MG 124gr fmj, 129 PF. 1.142 OAL. This is out of a 5 in barrel XD Tactical.

I use N320 because it is clean burning in both my 9 and 40. I shot the same load over two different matches, one was about 65 degree temp, 173.1 PF in 40, the other about 85 degree temp, 173.3 pf in my 40.

For your 9, are you long loading? i.e. near max OAL, or are you seating the bullet deeper? Has someone polished the chamber? We had this happen at range I worked at years ago where the gentleman polished the chamber and enlarged it to the point the brass was not creating a good seal. Got a lot of powder residue on the outside of the case and the slide face.

[JimmyZip]

If you are loading over the max, and yet your OAL is longer than that for the published data, well then you really are not 10% over but probably just right there. If you have increased your case volume over the given data, you have to increase your charge, and you should have to run more powder through the whole load work up.

[CZ85Combat]

what OAL are you loading? What does your spent brass look like? Also if you do a search for N320 you will find that a lot of re-loaders are loading N320 at 3.9-4.4gns & having no problems. It depends on the gun you are using. If you were the only one loading to 4.3gn then it would be a concern, but you have lots of others loading the same as you with no reports of over pressure. LAPUA data is not the best when it comes to American bullets.

I tried N330: a load of 4.6gn OAL of 1.100" MG 124gn jhp 1060fps. in my gun. not a clean as N320 at this load (94% of max) powders burn the cleanest at 96%-100% max load.

[tnshoot]

what OAL are you loading? What does your spent brass look like? .

Sorry. Actually meant to include that. Shooting for 1.145 but they're coming off the 650 mostly in the 1.147-1.148 range. Didn't worry a whole lot about the .002 I'm off. I actually had some loaded up at 4.0g to 1.14 and some at 1.15 and my AVG of 10 rds each only chrono'd 5 fps different so I guess I didnt think 1.142 vs 1.147 was accounting for much velocity difference.

Brass looks dirtier than factory ammo. Gun is almost 100% free of any powder residue

[kevin c]

N320: Extremely consistent metering, extremely consistent loads accuracy and velocity wise, extremely consistent from lot to lot, extremely clean, extremely hard to find and extremely expensive.

Pressure problems? I get 135 PF with moly and jacketed 147 gr bullets at 1.125 to 1.135 using 3.3 to 3.6 grains (out of a polygonally rifled Glock factory barrel) w/o pressure signs. Going down to 120 to 125 pf as an experiment (Glocks prefer higher PF's) I occasionally got sooty cases and dirty chambers from the cases not having enough pressure to obturate, but that was the only time I got a dirty N320 load.

With all powders being hard to find, I'm saving the N320 for match ammo. As noted above, the price is less of an issue for me than availability. Now, for practice ammo, I get about the same velocity but not quite the same consistency/accuracy with the same charge of Universal Clays.

[ltdmstr]

General consensus is that fast burning powders produce a more favorable recoil impulse in a Limited type gun. Slow burning powders work better in an open gun due to the compensator. That's why N320 is favored over N330 or N340. As for VV vs. others, it's clean burning, consistent, meters well, etc. Pretty much everything you want for our sport. But there are plenty of other options that will work just fine.

Edited June 25, 2013 by ltdmstr

[stick]

I use it because all the cool kids use it. since powder is such a small part of the eguation price isn't really an issue. The cost amounts to about $5.00 per thousand higher than comparable lower priced powders. I use N-320 to load 9mm, .40 and .45 works well for all of them and I only have 1 powder to deal with...

Yeah Titegroup does the same thing. I thought you used Titegroup, I didn't realize you used N320

[CZ85Combat]

what OAL are you loading? What does your spent brass look like? .

Brass looks dirtier than factory ammo. Gun is almost 100% free of any powder residue

The ? about the brass was are you seeing any, signs of over pressure?

[tnshoot]

The ? about the brass was are you seeing any, signs of over pressure?

No. Not that I can tell. Primers look fine if maybe the slightest bit flattened. Cases appear to be fine other that being pretty dirty.

[CZ85Combat]

then sounds like your load is ok.

[Baer45]

It's I the resting to see this topic as I have been experimenting with Hornady 124 gr FMJ -RN with 320,330,340. So far 4.3 gr. of 320 is giving me the tightest groups out of a Les Baer 1911 Bullseye gun. I choose 320 because Tight Group burns to hot for the volume I shoot, I love the way it meters and is very smooth...

Same experience with Sierra and MG in same bullet profile..

Basically, I try to match the powder to the gun. I always use my barrel to set bullet length and from memory was loading these to1.245 to 1.250 OAL with magazines accepting the length...in 45 I have been shooting N-310 4.5 grs. For years at 1.245 OAL. I find VV published data to be extremely conservative as I believe Patrick Sweeney did in his first book on the 1911. There is one chapter on reloading in that book I highly recommend to anyone new to reloading.90% of my questions can be answered in that one chapter for all caliber's. it's only in the first edition (red cover)...

Good luck!

Marine Corp

[MoNsTeR]

Why N320? Because it's the best. Assuming you're too scared to use N310, that is (I'm not).

It burns clean, shoots soft, and gives single-digit SD's. By revealed preference, we can infer that N330 (or your favorite alternative powder) does not do one or all of these things as well, else more people would be using it. Pressure is not a problem; the VV book load for 124 jacketed round nose is inexplicably conservative.

Also the extra cost is minimal (~$67per year vs. Titegroup if you shoot 10k rounds), and availability is only a problem if you're too foolish not to buy several jugs at a time.

[tnshoot]

An update for those that care. 4.3gn of 320 is still getting me an average velocity of 1030 and sd of 6 on 15 round strings. Probably fine, but I was looking for 1050.

So against all good advice I've gotten here so far I got a pound of 330 and went to work. 4.7 gn ended up giving me the 1050 avg I was looking for but its dirtier and SDs are in the mid teens. I'm assuming both of these are probably because I'm a good ways from a max load and everyone has said the VV powders tend to do best at 95%+ of max loads.

[CZ85Combat]

Change your OAL to 1.130 & test. N320 will run faster, N330 Will run faster & cleaner

[dlp40cal]

tg is cheaper but a lot of rounds at range makes gun hot at end of barrel sometimes melt fiber out

[tnshoot]

Ok. Got some n330 loads at 4.7gn 1.13 oal worked up that I'll chrono tomorrow. Also loaded a handful at same length and 4.6gn but I suspect they might be a touch slow and not going to help my search for a full burn.

I know you all are saying 320 published loads are conservative, but I'm just not going to load 4.3gn down to 1.13. I know just enough about loading to be dangerous, but not enough to be completely confident fooling around with loads over published data. Although, I suspect it would probably do exactly what I'm looking for.

One quick question for you guys. I started working these loads up at 1.145-1.15 because this bullet profile is giving me 1.173 oal to the lands and I've found 15-20 thousandths off to work ok for accuracy in the past. Or I should say, all my loads were coincidentally about .02 off before I knew to use a dummy round to check each barrel and accuracy happened to be good. And i didnt want to go much longer than 1.15 for feeding purposes. Any certain jump distance you guys have found that seems to universally begin to degrade accuracy? My thinking is going much more than the .04 I'm at now can't do much good.

Edited July 4, 2013 by tnshoot

[CZ85Combat]

You will have to test and see what your gun likes. your gun might shoot 1.5" groups with 15-20 thousandths off the rifling, mine might shoot 3" groups with this set up and may shoot 1" groups with 40-50 thousandths off the rifling. from my testing I did not see a big change in accuracy by changing the bullet jump distance. I have posted a link to vihtavuorire loading guide, you will see that a 124gn fmj/fp Hornady shows 4.3gn of N320. I think this is close to the bullet you use.

http://www.lapua.com/upload/downloads/brochures/2011/vihtavuorireloadingguideed9updtjuly2011eng.pdf

[19852]

I've used VV N320 for some years now. I've tried to replace it and found a close substitute in Ramshot Competition but I keep coming back. My fav load with a 124/5 jacketed is 4.2 grs. Since I started shooting revo I've gone to a 135gr Bayou in 9mm and 160gr in .38. Same powder same charge. Best of all shoots clean in both!

[tnshoot]

Another update on my great over complication of developing a 9 minor load.

4.7gn of 330 at 1.13 started feeling a little hot. Avg of 15 rd string was 1072 with sd of 6. Burned slightly cleaner but still left noticeably more powder residue than anything I loaded with 320.

4.6gn at 1.13 turned out to be just about right. Avg of 1052 and sd of 8. Perceived recoil was the same as 320 loaded to 4.3gn at 1.145 ( which I fired some mixed in a mag and couldn't tell difference other than the 330 sounds different). Really the only difference I can tell in the two loads is I'm getting another 20 fps from the 330 but it's not burning as clean.

Accuracy seemed fine. 15 rd string produced about 3.5-4" group, freestyle, at 25 yds while chronoing. 10 of those 15 were more like 2-3" so if I'm comfortable that I'll be hearing 'Charlie' as a result of my own lack of skill and not my ammo.

So, thanks for the help and suggestions. I think I'm happy for now. That is until I run out of 330 and can't find any more! Think I'll just use something more readily available in the future anyway since I'm not really seeing anything spectacular from the 330.

Edited July 7, 2013 by tnshoot