Sight focus potential break through.

[Dewberry]

So first some back ground, for years before I ever started to shoot a gun on a regular basis I was shooting a bow and arrow which has fiber optic sights. In archery I was taught to look at and focus on the target and just let the dot from the fiber optic be picked up by my peripheral vision and place it on the target (this was a relatively slow process taking 3 or 4 seconds to sight, hold on target and release the arrow. In the few local uspsa matches I have shot so far I have used this method for aiming my pistol also. It has worked decently, I hit alpha almost every time and I finish about half way through the pack both beating and losing to some b's and c's.

Now to the point, i have been reading alot on tracking my sight and calling my shot because i cant really do this yet. since every one says focus on the front sight i was working on that in dryfire practice this evening. I found that if I aimed at a target then looked at and focus on the front sight i had one front sight and 2 targets but the target became so blurry I could never hope to hit the alpha, so I started trying other things which led to an ah-ha moment when I found that I could focus on the front sight but look at the target this gave me one target that was kinda blurry but clear enough to hit and two front sight posts one was crystal clear and in line with my sight picture the other was off to the side and kinda blurry but my mind doesn't even notice it.

Is this what every one is talking about when they say focus on the front sight or should I really be looking at and focusing on the front sight to the point where there is one sight and two blurry targets and then learn how to distinguish those targets and hit the correct one accurately?

Sorry for the wordy post but thank you in advance for any help

[RangerTrace]

Hmm, I'm not sure what going on with your eyes, but when I have perfect "front sight focus" the front sight is perfectly clear with both the rear sights and target blurry. I if you are seeing two targets or two front sights, that could be problematic. It's possible that your eyes may not be tracking equally.

[Dewberry]

Are you doing this with both eyes open? When i look at anything and focus on it anything closer it farther away has a double image, i believe this is caused because with two eyes being several inches apart you have two different lines of sight. I believe this is what gives us depth perception. Have y'all trained your eyes to see something different? Or are you just ignoring the image from your "weak side" eye? Or is my vision messed up?

[motosapiens]

Are you doing this with both eyes open? When i look at anything and focus on it anything closer it farther away has a double image,

You are correct. It appears that not everyone notices these double images as much, due to differing eye-dominance or something. I've been able to sort them out, but I recently started experimenting with putting a little square of scotch tape over my non-dominant eye to block that eye's view of the sight, but leave my peripheral vision open. It seems to speed things up slightly by reducing the clutter in my field of view.

[Dewberry]

Your blocking your non-dominant eyes view of the sight or the target with the Tape?

[motosapiens]

Your blocking your non-dominant eyes view of the sight or the target with the Tape?

it blocks the non-dominant eye's view of the sight, so I only see 1 sight. usually ends up obscuring the target too. I noticed a GM with tape on his glasses at the Area 1 match, and in researching it, I discovered that some smart guy on this forum named Brian Enos also used tape on his glasses. So I figured I'd give it a try and see if I can acquire the sights faster. It seems to be helping.

[noylj]

I can state that, after 40 years, I can not focus on the front sight UNLESS it has a colored dot to focus on.

If I have a black front sight, it goes blurry as soon as the rear sight comes up to it. I focus by ensuring the fuzzy front sight on top is aligned with the fuzzy rear sight on top and the dark fuzzy front sight on the bottom is aligned with the dark fuzzy rear sight on the bottom.

With left eye blocked, and an aperture on my right lens, I still can not get focus unless that front sight has a white dot or something to focus on and still have the same double blur image. It is the way my eyes are.

However, unlike so many folks who believe there is only one way to focus, my conclusion has been that the sight picture, whatever it is, must be consistent. With consistent sight picture, accuracy follows.

If I have a red dot with comma instead of perfect round image, I follow the same goal--whatever sight picture I use, I use for every shot. As long as the comma is consistent, I get the same reliable sight picture as with a perfect dot.

Eyes are all different.

[Dewberry]

Alright so I'm sold on the tape idea, if I'm understanding this correctly it worn in competition also not just practice. And how big of a piece of tape are y'all using?

[Poppa Bear]

I use a piece just big enough to obscure the front sight. If my eye cannot get a solid focus on the top of the gun but see everything else it works.

[Dewberry]

I'm confused, aren't you looking at the front sight so there is only one front sight to look at? Wouldn't the tape be used to block you weak eye from creating a second target?

[Poppa Bear]

I am cross dominant and close to equal between the two. I have on occasion had the rear sight in focus with my right eye while the slightly more dominant left eye is focused on the front sight.

[motosapiens]

Alright so I'm sold on the tape idea, if I'm understanding this correctly it worn in competition also not just practice. And how big of a piece of tape are y'all using?

It's worth trying anyway. I use about a 1/2 inch square, it took 15 mins or so of experimenting to find the right place to put it.

I'm confused, aren't you looking at the front sight so there is only one front sight to look at? Wouldn't the tape be used to block you weak eye from creating a second target?

My focus tends to go back and forth unless I'm being really deliberate. Also depends somewhat on the distance to the target, and what else is going on at the time. the tape reduces all the double-image clutter for me that occurs when i am paying attention to things at different distances.

[grapemeister]

Dewberry, once you get the eye dominance and tape or no tape thing worked out, you may want to start working on seeing the difference between a front sight focus, and just seeing a sight picture. This is a fairly new revelation for me. Going way back maybe 25 years ago I was taught and practiced a front sight focus always, but what I've learned is that in practical shooting always using a front sight focus can often slow you down, especially when transitioning from target to target.

I've gotten to the point now that I see a sight picture on targets out to about 15 yards, and a sharp front sight focus on targets beyond that distance. In case you are wondering, a sight picture is just seeing the sights lined up, but not a sharp focus on the sights.

Anyhow, I hope that makes since. Since I started practicing and experimenting with just a sight picture, and seeing just what I need to see, my transition times have improved.

[Dewberry]

Yeah, I think I'm going to stick with what I have been doing which shot fired. Eyes snap to next target while at the same time the sight startes to move to the target. Eyes see an(at least for the match next weekend, then I may reasses)d focus on target, front sight shows up, eyes continue to look at target but focus on the front sight. (So the target is kinda blurry but the front site it almost crystal clear) pull trigger shot goes off. I blink (dang I wish I didn't blink) I open eyes and see the target and it starts all over.

So calling my shot is then end goal for all this and I have decided for the time I think the blinking is more of a problem than my focus, so I'm going to work on that. Unfortunately I can really work on that without spending money on ammo.

[ktm300]

Blinking is a problem for calling shots. I had the issue and was able to solve it by working very hard to track the front sight in recoil. The drill that helped the most was something I saw on a TGO youtube video. Aim at a steel target only think about watching how high the sight goes over the target. It is a single shot drill so it doesn't burn that much ammo. I started with a .22 and once I could do it with that moved to my .40. It only took a few tries but it made the blink go away. I guess it was because I was so focused on how high the gun went I had to keep my eyes open. Look at about 9 minutes in the video to see what I am talking about.

The rest of the drill is to then aim at a single spot on the steel and put shots in that spot starting slow and increasing speed as long as you can hit the same spot.

This set of drills helped me more than any others in learning to track the sight.

[Chris iliff]

When shooting iron sights I put a piece of tape over my NON DOMINANT eye. This is common practice with lots of folks. Did I read that you are going to tape your dominant eye?

Also, I have found that the tape doesn't need to be huge, just enough to force full dominance with your dominant eye. I've used as small as a pencil erasure sized piece.

You see, pun there, the problem with double vision, be it targets or sights or both, is that your eyes are fighting each other. Of course you want your MOST dominant eye focusing on the sights, this is why you tape the non dominant eye always. This will allow your dominant eye the "upper hand" so to speak, and get rid of the blurry double stuff. Works for me anyway.

[Dewberry]

Thanks for the video, i will watch it when i get home from worm but from your discription it sounds like it will be very helpful.

When shooting iron sights I put a piece of tape over my NON DOMINANT eye. This is common practice with lots of folks. Did I read that you are going to tape your dominant eye?

If so i was unclear, i understand that you tape the weak eye.

I think I'm going to hold off on the tape till i learn to stop blinking. Then i may try it. But i think i will be able to follow the sight with my current focus if i can stop blinking

[Dewberry]

Double post, sorry

Edited May 31, 2013 by Dewberry

[45dotACP]

When I did rifle shooting, I had glasses with the weak eye taped over entirely...looked like pirate safety glasses lol

[Jensey]

I learned to shoot with one eye closed. When I started training to competition shoot I was told I really should keep both open. It was like learning to walk again, it was terrible. I was shooting all over the place, seeing two front sights or two targets. I dry fired a lot and worked on focus until it was fixed and now I only see one of everything with both eyes open and no taping. One thing that helped me (and I did it a lot before it fixed this) was holding the gun out I would start my focus on the target and then change my focus to the front sight. When I did this I would not have double vision. I started doing it slow and then sped up the focus change until now I don't have to focus on the target at all. Focus goes straight to the front sight and I don't see double. I had to train my eyes though. Hope that helps.

[taadski]

There's some really interesting (eye opening ;-)) discussion re shooting visual/focal issues here:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5599-Target-Mix-Up-During-Transitions-Due-to-Eye-Focus

t

[Unclemoose331]

I also recommend using a small dime size piece of scotch tape over non-dominant eye. Trying to constantly close your non-Dom eye while navigating a USPSA stage can be difficult. I have also seen shooters put a small smudge of chap stick on their shooting glasses to accomplish the same thing.

[motosapiens]

There's some really interesting (eye opening ;-)) discussion re shooting visual/focal issues here:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5599-Target-Mix-Up-During-Transitions-Due-to-Eye-Focus

t

That is some interesting info. On the way to work I tried some focus practice using spots on my windshield, and it became clear why perhaps the scotch tape helps me so much. with both eyes open (and untaped, since i'm driving to work), it is easy to focus on the target object, but it is difficult to focus on the smudge(sight) and when I do so, i get 2 very clear images of the target, and the one that naturally draws my attention is the wrong one!. If I block off part of my left eye by putting my hand up, I can effortlessly switch focus from sight to target.

I don't know if my long background of active sports (racing motorcycles and bicycles and skis, volleyball, ultimate frisbee, etc....) has trained my eyes to be better at looking at far away things with both eyes or what, but my experiment seemed to confirm that for my particular vision, the tape is beneficial.