So what's the final call on load2/4 vs weak hand/strong hand reloa

[DrLove]

folks, I know this has been discussed 100s of times but I still have not heard sort of final judgment kind of thing. That is, with good practice, and assuming everything else is equal, is load2 or load4 faster than "regular" weak hand or strong hand reloads?

Do we have any "final" evidence backing any claim here??

[DrLove]

Guys, any one?

[davehorn]

I've been pondering this myself lately. I'm reluctant to switch to an L2/4 system as I've got so much time with the weak hand and am relatively comfortable with it, not to mention the extra gear cost. I think the answer is still "whichever works best for you". If standing in my basement with a shot timer, and camera while loading my shotgun were a contest, the L4 wins hands down. In a match with movement, changing ammo types, etc, I think it's still the indian over the arrow at this point.

[aquaticvisions]

Take this with a grain of salt 'cuz it's just my opinion: those who have put in the time (LOTS of time) to be really fast AND consistent with the weak-hand load from the shotshell caddy probably won't gain anything by switching to the newer load 2 or load 4 in tandem techniques. Those who are just starting out or who are struggling with the older caddy load (my usual performance is "load 3, drop1, say a bad word") should go with the new tandem style.

Load 2 has more versatility than load 4 because you might only have room for 2 more shells in your tube. It's also easier to drop 1 shell in the breech then load the other in the tube with load 2 if you go to slide lock.

Load 4 is just flat out fast due to less hand/arm movement. I'm thinking of running a belt-mounted load 4 unit holding 4 shells along with my Mark Otto load 2 chest rig.

[Mark Stephens]

I finally broke down and tried some load four this week. Using Taccom holders I borrowed with 40 mins of practice the first night and 20 mins the next I was able to bust five consecutive sub 5 sec load 8's. this was strong hand, feels more solid for me even though I am used to weak hand caddy loading. As a reference I would have trouble doing a sub 6.5 sec weak hand reload consistently even after years of practice. I just think its faster with much less practice required. I am by no means match ready for this loading but with a couple weeks practice I think I will be. Definately need to wrap my thumb tho lol.

[ziebart]

One thing I have found I am able to load2 while moving much faster. If I were to use the caddies I really have to slow down my walk. Probably comes down to practice though. I used caddies for less than a year before switching.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I ran 100% quad loading at the Pro Series this weekend. There were 51 shooters there. I'd guess that the duece droppers and quad loaders are close to 50%. The top guys are still loading weak hand because they are good at it and never drop shells. The up and coming guys are looking for an advantage. Quads and dueces are faster. It's just a matter of time until most shooters are using it.

[kurtm]

Hmmmm we will have to see where this goes. I have been carefully watching now for a while. I do know at the Benelli shotgun championships the only stage that was basically a stand and load and shoot was won in both standard, and standard manual by weakhand loaders. At the CMMG Mid West Championships weakhand loading dominated tac optic and tac iron, even though there were some very accomplished quad/ deuce loaders. I still think that it doesn't matter as long as you practice, but I think the claims of the "stand in the basement and load " crowd seems to be not quite what they think it is.

Edited May 21, 2013 by kurtm

[Jesse Tischauser]

Hmmmm we will have to see where this goes. I have been carefully watching now for a while. I do know at the Benelli shotgun championships the only stage that was basically a stand and load and shoot was won in both standard, and standard manual by weakhand loaders. At the CMMG Mid West Championships weakhand loading dominated tac optic and tac iron, even though there were some very accomplished quad/ deuce loaders. I still think that it doesn't matter as long as you practice, but I think the claims of the "stand in the basement and load " crowd seems to be not quite what they think it is.

If you can't shoot it doesn't matter how fast you load.

[thegunnerd]

I ran 100% quad loading at the Pro Series this weekend. There were 51 shooters there. I'd guess that the duece droppers and quad loaders are close to 50%. The top guys are still loading weak hand because they are good at it and never drop shells. The up and coming guys are looking for an advantage. Quads and dueces are faster. It's just a matter of time until most shooters are using it.

Bingo

[Brian Payne]

I have become a big fan of the quadload. I started it because I wanted a good way to load shells from the right side of my belt since I normally load weak hand from the left side of the gear belt. Plus on long stages that require a lot of loading, I would sometimes get cramps in the thumb of the weak hand and quadloads allowed me to give the weakhand thumb a break.

Based on timer results (stand in the basement loads), I feel the quadload is faster, but in a match you are doing more than just reloading while the timer is running. This seems to be the great "equalizer". Practice what works for you I guess. For me, I am still going to practice with both and be prepared to use both during a match.

Interesting story, on Stage #6 at CMMG I watched a shooter go to slide lock on the shotgun portion while still having three pieces of steel standing. The shooter did a smoking reload of three rounds, then proceeded to fire three rounds in very rapid succession at one of the stationary pieces of steel. After this blazing display of shotgun trigger speed, there were still three pieces of steel standing. Moral of the story for me. Make your hits first, then worry about any sort of smoking reloads.

[P.E. Kelley]

Is there a final call on how to load your pistol? (high in front of face. lower in your "work space")

Final call on bullets forward or back for spare rifle mags?

Final call on arm position or head position for pistol shooting? Dave Sevigny or TGO

Weak hand, strong hand, load two or quad load all work just fine.

The Reload-a-bateing at home videos are cool, but don't always translate to match performance.

Pick one and practice.

[MarkCO]

Certainly shotgun loading is not one size fits all, maybe not even one size fits most.

Before James and I started Carbon Arms and pushed forward the Twin and Quad loading techniques and gear in US 3Gun, we hated any stage with more than 9 rounds of shotgun. You know that nightmare some people have of going to school in your underwear? That was me anytime I had to load my shotgun. The only reason I even kept at 3Gun is because I enjoyed the other aspects so much. The first prototypes we made several years ago literally cut my load times by 6 or 7 seconds in the first 30 minutes of trying it out, and we did not even have a good technique. There are now 6 other companies making products for Twin and Quad loading...but I have not seen any new products in traditional caddies in the last 4 years...that alone should say something.

Last year, I went to Kurt and Trapr's shotgun match and finished 16th. For a fat middle aged guy who does not practice, that was a pretty decent step up from the convulsions I went into even watching video of the same match from prior years. I'm not scared of shotgun anymore and the new methods have let me start to work on learning how to shoot shotguns. Kurt's and Patrick's comments herein are borne of years of observation and skill, so take heed.

One of my 15 minutes of fame came at this years SMM3G on the last stage of the match...all shotgun...with about 15 or so GMs and top 3Gunners watching, I probably shot one of my better stages ever and through the soft voice of the RO asking me to show clear, hearing applause and Kurt yelling my name. I don't care who you are, when guys like the Miller Brothers, Jarret, Leatham, Casanova say stuff like "Impressive" and "Very Nice", it sticks with you and gives you confidence. If I was weak hand loading, that NEVER would have happened for me.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Brian hot the nail on the head. 1-2 misses and it don't matter if your loading with magazines cause all the loading speed is gone.

[cold]

The Reload-a-bateing at home videos are cool, but don't always translate to match performance.

HA, that made me laugh out loud in court.

Reload-a-bating... that was a good one PK.

Edited May 21, 2013 by cold

[abn-rgr]

I recently started using the load two method and my loading time....at matches.....has almost been cut in half with little to no fumbled shells. That being said, I still use weak hand caddies when the situation permits. I look at it as another tool in the toolbox.

[co-exprs]

Similar story here. I spent countless hours and two years trying to learn weak hand reloading (actually I do the strong side caddie reload). No matter how much I bloodied my thumbs, I just couldn't break 7sec. 8sec, clean in a match was really a more realistic goal. I tried deuces and within 1 hour I was burning 6sec reloads and it's only gotten better since. My close shooting buddy was the opposite story. When he first tried weak hand reloading, he was running 7sec consistently and without dropping in only a few hours of practice (I was so mad). When he tried load 2, he couldn't get under 7sec without fumbling. He's working with the load 2 method, but I think he is leaning towards sticking with caddies. Point is... different strokes for different folks. Caddies, side saddles and load 2 provides options. I've seen some pretty phenominal quad load times, but I've had trouble picking up the quad load technique, so I'll stick with deuces for now. I do still throw caddies into my bag though. I absolutely hate going prone on my load 2 gear. I use caddies if I will be going prone with shotgun gear on.

[Jesse Tischauser]

The part I love and hate at the same time about the new loading techniques is that it makes it easier for shooters that have a hard time loading get into the sport and have fun and helps shooters that couldn't load with previous methods perform better which is always more fun.

[dcloudy777]

I know the final call for me. I worked like hell at "weak-hand 4" for 2 years... by the end of two weeks and one match with "load-2" I was just as fast and a lot more consistent. YMMV.

I also like the greater control over the order in which shells go in (and thus come out) of the gun. It made planning for slug/buck easier and allowed me more flexibility in stage planning.

Edited May 21, 2013 by dcloudy777

[kurtm]

So Jesse, are you saying I can't shoot? Jake shot me in the leg not the trigger finger!

The point I was trying to make, although I didn't articulate it well, is use whatever methoud works for you, they are all good, BUT YOU HAVE TO PRACTICE IT OR IT WON'T DO YOU ANY GOOD! If you can load a shell a second under match conditions you are doing fine!

[co-exprs]

Final call?..... Kurt wins!

[thegunnerd]

The part I love and hate at the same time about the new loading techniques is that it makes it easier for shooters that have a hard time loading get into the sport and have fun and helps shooters that couldn't load with previous methods perform better which is always more fun.

True, but then those shooters that have killer reloads will tank on pretty much everything else ......especially pistol stages . No ic and soft bird shot forgiveness there. Brian had a similar experience that he mentioned above. That same guy will also screw up long distance rifle stages because of ZERO trigger control . Yeah he can hose 10 yard targets fast as hell with an ar but push out to 400 and he times out. While those shooters may not be fun to shoot in a squad with, getting more to the sport , on a whole, can't be a bad thing.

I'm hoping to up my quad load speed once i get my shotgun back from shay.......After having talked to Mark from carbon many times in many threads, i agree that having quad and dual load available on your belt and in your bag is important . Add in weak hand single shell reloading and you have it all covered. wash-rinse-repeat

Edited May 26, 2013 by thegunnerd

[Jesse Tischauser]

The part I love and hate at the same time about the new loading techniques is that it makes it easier for shooters that have a hard time loading get into the sport and have fun and helps shooters that couldn't load with previous methods perform better which is always more fun.

True, but then those shooters that have killer reloads will tank on pretty much everything else ......especially pistol stages . No ic and soft bird shot forgiveness there. Brian had a similar experience that he mentioned above. That same guy will also screw up long distance rifle stages because of ZERO trigger control . Yeah he can hose 10 yard targets fast as hell with an ar but push out to 400 and he times out. While those shooters may not be fun to shoot in a squad with, getting more to the sport , on a whole, can't be a bad thing.

I'm hoping to up my quad load speed once i get my shotgun back from shay.......After having talked to Mark from carbon many times in many threads, i agree that having quad and dual load available on your belt and in your bag is important . Add in weak hand single shell reloading and you have it all covered. wash-rinse-repeat

Sorry I was being sarcastic. The dueces and quads are awesome. A bunch of our local beginners are using dueces and instead of them suffering through the big shotgun stages dropping shells and loading slow weak hand they are having fun and that's awesome!

[thegunnerd]

Hehehe true enough. I think it CAN be a double edged sword sometimes with people trying to come out and shoot and not knowing their guns let alone their gear. But on a whole the more the better I say. Action shooters tend to be some fantastic people . Wether is 3 gun , ipsc, uspsa, I don't think there is a sport that has more camaraderie and support then shooting.

ps. your loading vids are looking sharp sir , let me know if you're down shooting in florida anytime , I need to steal some of your moves

[Jesse Tischauser]

Hehehe true enough. I think it CAN be a double edged sword sometimes with people trying to come out and shoot and not knowing their guns let alone their gear. But on a whole the more the better I say. Action shooters tend to be some fantastic people . Wether is 3 gun , ipsc, uspsa, I don't think there is a sport that has more camaraderie and support then shooting.

ps. your loading vids are looking sharp sir , let me know if you're down shooting in florida anytime , I need to steal some of your moves

There should be a group of us coming down in November for the US Carbine Association 2 gun match. See you there.