2013 USPSA Handgun Rules?

[rgkeller]

Our new director has pledged to bring the USPSA into the digital/internet age.

The NROI and the rules dissemination would be the best place to start.

[Chuck Anderson]

She's been at the job barely two months and a significant amount of that time was occupied with the budget, audit and SHOT Show. She's got plans, give her a few months to get things implemented.

[rgkeller]

NROI Director and the Board have been "at the job" for years.

Creating a downable PDF file is not rocket science.

USPSA rules dissemination is a joke. It has needed fixing for years.

[ima45dv8]

It has been an ongoing struggle.

[38SuperDub]

Shot show?

Did uspsa have a booth? Just curious how I missed it.

Maybe instead of hiring a "historian" we can use that money to have someone keep the rules current. I know for one this is more of a priority to me than a historian. But we all know what my opinion is worth.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'm almost hesitant to post anymore, but...

How do you want to see changes noted in an online rule book. My concern is making changes to an online document without making it very clear what is new information. I don't want to make someone print out a 100 pages everytime we change the wording on some rule. Should there be a list of adjustments at the front with links to the page? Should the old rule be included but lined out? There is obviously smart people on here, so what is the best way to do this, rather than reinventing the wheel.

And Brandon, no USPSA did not have a booth. When the show floor was adjusted the place they used to use for the Non-profit groups basically went away. Most of the groups that used to have booths quit going to set up. I can't speak for Kim (or Dave since it was his decision) but I would rather USPSA didn't waste the money on a booth at SHOT. The NRA show is a different matter, but the expense of setting up and staffing a booth at SHOT is right around 10K even with the booth being free. Instead Kim, Phil, several memebers of the USPSA BOD, and several other representatives from USPSA went out and met with members and sponsors. If you think Kim wasn't busy because she wasn't in a booth, well I'll take that into account on how I value your opinion in the future.

[GuildSF4]

Acrobat can be set up to track changes. I am sure someone could be found to do this or explain the setup.

[sperman]

Nascar issues a rulebook at the start of the season. After that, the rules are adjusted on a frequent basis. When a rule is changed, the appropriate section of the rulebook is included. Any items that are deleted are shown crossed out. Any new items are underlined and bold.

I don't know that this will work for USPSA. At a Sprint Cup event, all of the competitors are at the same place at the same time, and all of the officials are also there under the competition director. Our circumstances are completely different, but there might be something to be learned from how they do it.

I've attached a couple of examples if anyone want to look at them.

NSCS12-5_6-20-12.pdf

NSCS12-9_ 9-11-12.pdf

[CZinSC]

I like Scott’s idea. In fact, if I remember correctly, when I took the RO class, the first thing George Jones handed us was the current rule book and an addendum. We were encouraged to tape the addendum to the front of the rule book and make notes in the actual rulebook next to those rules that had a change, that were on the addendum. That way if you are looking for a rule, you can reference the most up to date version of that rule.

You could do this with a simple PDF on the USPSA website. You could update it any time a rule change is made. That way whatever document is on the website, is the most up to date. It would be incumbent on the individual to download and print that document, but I think we can all agree that if you are interested in knowing the latest rule change, you will be glad to do just that. If you’re not bothered by the latest rules, then you aren’t going to care either way.

When a new rule book is finally updated and sent out, the PDF can removed and a simple “all rules in current rulebook are up to date”.

BTW, I realize that there are NROI rulings on the website that clarify rules. That doesn’t work because you have to print out each one individually. The idea above is to have one document that contains all changes.

[ima45dv8]

I'm almost hesitant to post anymore, but...

How do you want to see changes noted in an online rule book. My concern is making changes to an online document without making it very clear what is new information. I don't want to make someone print out a 100 pages everytime we change the wording on some rule. Should there be a list of adjustments at the front with links to the page? Should the old rule be included but lined out? There is obviously smart people on here, so what is the best way to do this, rather than reinventing the wheel.

And Brandon, no USPSA did not have a booth. When the show floor was adjusted the place they used to use for the Non-profit groups basically went away. Most of the groups that used to have booths quit going to set up. I can't speak for Kim (or Dave since it was his decision) but I would rather USPSA didn't waste the money on a booth at SHOT. The NRA show is a different matter, but the expense of setting up and staffing a booth at SHOT is right around 10K even with the booth being free. Instead Kim, Phil, several memebers of the USPSA BOD, and several other representatives from USPSA went out and met with members and sponsors. If you think Kim wasn't busy because she wasn't in a booth, well I'll take that into account on how I value your opinion in the future.

Honestly Chuck, I haven't put too much thought into format. Yet!

One quick wish list item would be to have the rule(s) affected by a Published ruling crossed-out and followed by the new version, of if excluded by the Ruling, lined out and followed with the Ruling as a reference for the deletion. BoD rulings would be integrated in the same manner.

A possible solution that would add some flexibility for the match staff would be to have two documents. One as a change list (a compilation of the items described above) and another that was a full rulebook PDF with those changes edited in. It might take some effort to compile the first iteration but future revisions would be a much simpler edit routine to repost with any additional changes.

Again, I'm talking about a stop gap for those changes that take place between publication cycles. I'm OK with manually making the edits in my own rulebook but it would be a great help to have the changes 'certified' and presented in one single location/link.

[38SuperDub]

Thanks for being so polite Chuck. My question was valid. Did uspsa have a booth.

Sometimes things need to be prioritized. Sending an entire office and members to an industry show or updating rules that already went in effect. I'm not saying that time was wasted but it does need to be prioritized.

As it sits now there is nothing available to every member that shows how the rules sit as of right now with explanations.

Not every member gets front sight magazine so that is a lousy excuse for a rules release.

What most people have been asking for us a website update. That is not asking a lot. I can build an entire website in a weekend. How is it that 2 1/2 months later the rules cannot be updated. Obviously as an organization those who run it are more concerned about meeting members as you put it than having all members playing by the same rules

If uspsa does not have someone that knows HTML enough to update the rules I will volunteer my time FREE OF CHARGE to update the website with the rules. Guess what - I could do it in about 3 minutes

[Jaxshooter]

_{All of the suggestions certainly have merit but unfortunately USPSA does not have the personnel to sit down and edit the rule book and post it on the website. I suppose if we had the budget and sponsorship that NASCAR enjoys that would make it possible. All that is necessay imo is to post the rule number with the current wording. There is no need to show the old rule and line it out.}

_{As to a booth at the SHOT Show the industry people are not who we are trying to recruit. A booth at the NRA Show exposes USPSA to the audience we are trying to attract. Representatives from USPSA were at the Shot Show talking to the industry representatives about sponsorship for our orgaanization. That is how we benefit from the SHOT Show.}

Edited March 8, 2013 by Jaxshooter

[sperman]

Assuming that the current rulebook exists as a Word (or similar) document, what we are talking about is 5 minutes work. I will volunteer to do that for USPSA when new rules are approved. I'm sure there are many others with the skill and time who are willing to help out in this area.

[38SuperDub]

All you have to do is have a link pointing to "newrules.pdf" on the rules page. Then anytime there are changes just add them to a document. Name it newrules.pdf and upload it to the server.

You are talking less than 1 minute of work.

[Joe4d]

5 minutes a year. Seriously, No new rules go in effect until 1 jan of each year. if th enew rule doenst make the cutoff date it waits till next year. Each year a "Year" addition is posted with changes in the PDF version of the rule book. With page one being a list of changes since last published hard copy.

Those that need a whole book can print it off, those that have a hard copy book can just print the first list of changes. Each person, shooter or ro can do what they want with those changes, pencil them in to thier hard copy, tape em in front, or whatever. maybe use some of the money we are spending on Nationals RO food budget to hire a Adobe student for a couple hours once a year,

[CZinSC]

_{All of the suggestions certainly have merit but unfortunately USPSA does not have the personnel to sit down and edit the rule book and post it on the website.}

This makes Brandon's point early even more valid. Why is USPSA hiring a historian? What is more important? Digging up old pictures of TGO and Enos wearing short shorts and trucker hats, or timely updates to the website and a rule book that includes the latest rulings and rule changes?

[ima45dv8]

_{... but unfortunately USPSA does not have the personnel to sit down and edit the rule book and post it on the website.}

Can you support that statement with fact, or is it just your opinion based on how things have always been?

With the addition of a webmaster to the USPSA staff, it would seem there is the necessary personnel.

[ima45dv8]

...No new rules go in effect until 1 jan of each year. ...

I understand where you're going Joe, but that really isn't practical. There will occasionally be updates that need to made mid-term.

What we trying to establish is a method to make those available in a manner that best serves the organization.

[ima45dv8]

Chuck,

You have my sincere thanks for taking the time to reply here. I know this is uncomfortable (at best).

All we're asking is for the tools to run a match according to current USPSA rules without having to jump through multiple hoops to get there. I don't know what the final product would be, but I'm certain it could, and would be better than what we've been getting all these years.

If this isn't the top priority, I'd like to know what is.

E.D. Kim --

Any input on that? We live and die by the rulebook. What could be more important?

If there's a higher priority, please fill us in.

[BritinUSA]

I think there are two ways to show updates in any document. For a rule book both could be used. The first method is a marker in the left margin to indicate that a change has occurred in this line/paragraph.

Secondly a table at the start of the document outlines the changes in more detail. ie. page number, rule number, old rule, new rule.

This way the RO can see all the updates that have changed but when using the rule book at the range they can see the 'in effect' rule without having it cluttered up with old rules. IROA rulings can be referenced to an appendix, again so they don't clutter up the rules.

The first time these changes are made may require some significant effort but future updates in this format would only take a few minutes and could be posted online easily.

For those that want a printed copy they can just print the pages that have changed by referencing the 'update table' at the top of the document. Or better yet just whack it in in a Kindle.

Edited March 9, 2013 by BritinUSA

[Nik Habicht]

Chuck,

since you asked, here's what anyone working as an RM (and realistically as an RO or CRO) eeds to do at the moment, to ensure possession of complete set of rules:

1. Grab a rulebook
   
2. Go to the USPSA website and pull up and print out 20 separate rulings, which then need to be sorted by rule or appendix number, to make them easy to reference
   
3. print a copy of the Production gun list.
   

Once that's done, when it's time to run the next match, you need to pull up all the individual rulings to determine if there was a change.

It is clear to me that we will always have updates to the rules, and that the production gun list will change, as new models are introduced. If item number 2 could be turned into a single document, with a release date in the header, arranged in an order that follows the rulebook layout, this would become a much simpler procedure -- as folks would only need to verify that their copy matches the date on the website. If it doesn't, it's not hard to download and print two documents -- the updates and the PD gun list.

It would also, in my case make it more likely that I'd print additional copies for the stage boxes, or have copies made, if I'm not spending my time assembling 21 different pieces.

BTW -- those 20 individual items are a low number, I'm guessing due to the new MG rules. I remember having to sort out rifle and shotgun clarifications.

And I realize that I'm really asking that four documents be created and maintained: Clarifications for Handgun, for Rifle, for Shotgun, and for Multigun.

It seems to me that should fall within the job description of DNROI -- perhaps with clerical assistance from HQ.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

With the use of broadcast e mails for match results, why can't they just use a central e mail list, prepare the page that changes and e mail to all?

OR, when you take your RO test, they mail all changes and NROI rulings since your last exam? There would be an initial input necessary but after the first year it seems like it should be easy.

But what do I know, I am probably the least tech person here

[splashdown]

I'm really surprised by all of this. I've been checking the USPSA website for two months looking for new rules or rulings. Last time there were changes, a new rule book was sent out ("USPSA Handgun Competition Rules, January 2008, with BOD Approved Ammendments through July 2010")

Are we really expected to comb through the BOD Meeting Minutes and various threads here on BE Forums in order to determine what final version of the rule changes are in effect? I had just assumed that they were not in effect yet since I couldn't even find a PDF of the new version.

Sounds like I need to read JA's column in the new Front Sight.

[mactiger]

I will be working on some of the changes suggested here. I know how to use most Adobe software, and there have been several reasonable suggestions made. As some of you have stated, taking over as Executive Director and bringing USPSA into this century electronically is not an easy task, simply because we were so far behind. However, rest assured that now that the audit process (this is an annual thing, done by an independent auditor) is over and successfully passed, things will start moving around. The new web guy has only been at the task for a couple of months--let him get to know the system and to take into account all the needed changes, and he'll get them done. It will take a little time, but he does new things to the web page every day, and there are a lot of internal changes that won't be obvious to the users of our web page. Let our new ED settle in a bit; I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the changes coming.

I'm on the rules committee as well. We are working through some changes, but we want to be sure that we make the right changes and that any new rules are well-considered, simple, and sensible. As for the 2011 BOD rules changes, as Chuck says, they are in effect right now.

And, for the record---we are not hiring a historian. That was in the minutes, because it was considered at the last board meeting, but that's all it was: a consideration.

Hope this helps.

Troy

Edited March 11, 2013 by mactiger

[ima45dv8]

Thanks again to Chuck and Troy for their input (and reassurances).