Should USPSA allow 8-shot minor in Revolver Division?

[Carmoney]

Making USPSA matches 6-round neutral is never going to happen.

I don't even want it to happen, except perhaps at a match that is designed purely for revolvers only.

And probably not even then. Designing interesting stages that are 6-round neutral is nearly impossible.

[pskys2]

Yea, I'd vote to increase from the current 8 to 9 or 10 per position. It's more important to give options of engagement than an actual fixed round count.

[wheelie]

We've had a couple of very good 6 neutral stages here lately. No complaints from anyone - but they were fairly high total round count.

[pskys2]

It was brought up at another thread, so I'll share an idea.

Maybe for the next couple of years it would be better to have more Revolver Specific Prize/Money Matches. Then include Categories of Open, Minor 8 or 7 and Speed Loader to name a few?

Would a Minor 8 Category be legal? Even if it's not, as long as it wasn't a Level II, or higher, it could probably be done and Prizes/Money paid out in a fair manner. Might be a bit late to do very many this year, but it would be time to start the planning.

[wheelie]

Or incent any and every revolver shooter by promising a couple of 6 neutral stages. No detriment to anyone, big benefit to revolver shooters and to the sport via higher participation.

After the two threads that are running here are fully considered I'd be in favor of allowing any shooter to compete with a revolver. Any revolver. If its an 8 shooter that makes major that is fine with me.

[Cd662]

This conversation is like cycling that bullet around that has the bad primer in it. You can keep doing it over and over but deep down, you already know what's going to happen.

[wheelie]

This conversation is like cycling that bullet around that has the bad primer in it. You can keep doing it over and over but deep down, you already know what's going to happen.

Indeed, but if you don't cycle it around there is no chance of it going off.

So you keep pulling it.

[ChrisC]

its been pointed out that my views have changed since I answered the poll and first responded to this thread.

we recently did some testing at a local match where it was just me and bubber. unless he train wrecked or the stage was 6 shot neutral the 8 shot was a clear choice. very few stages are 6 shot neutral, most are 8.

I would stop shooting revolver if it went to a 8 minor system. we have tested it locally a few times and the 8 shooters win big on stages that isn't just shoot 6 and move. the only equalizing factor is the disaster factor when the 8 shooter totally blows something. I am not willing to invest $1500+ into 8 shot gear to shoot against 5 people at a local match. I do own an 8 shot open gun (ICORE) and rarely touch it, as I prefer Classic division.

if it goes to 8 shot minor i will convert my 625's to be IDPA legal and start wearing my stupid fishing vest or just sell them outright and go to limited or single stack division.

Edited April 1, 2013 by ChrisC

[toothguy]

I would stop shooting revolver if it went to a 8 minor system.

No matter how anyone voted, I don't think anyone wants that to happen.

[TGO]

I'll trade you a 4" 625 barrel for a 5", so you can try IDPA? Your findings are the same as ours. The reason I think it's good is because we have 3-4 times as many come out to shoot the 8 shooters. I'm sorry that it makes you feel as though you would quit, but this division is on the brink of extinction. If things aren't tried to build participation, at best it will dwindle on as is or at worst fade away completely.

You'd still shoot, just in a different division?

Gotta tell you, I've now spoken to quite a few shooters at local, regional and National level matches and the majority are open to trying this as a provisional test. Very few who actually have been at the matches do not want to at least give it test.

What do you suggest to help the division?, and make it something that can work and fit into the existing matches.

[TGO]

BTW, this isn't designed to entice anyone to quit, just to increase participation in the division to a level that it becomes relevant, at all levels of competition.

[ChrisC]

Rob,

Both of my 625's are 4 inch as the 5's haven't been in production in quite some time, . 8 shots are pretty rare it seems by their price, although more availible than the FNS-9 5 inch gun (LOL) . I have shot IDPA once and didn't care for it so that's not really an option. If it matters that more people shoot revolver I think you will have more luck bringing in the 8 shot guys from ICORE and than you will by trying to get in the speed loader guys from IDPA. So if it brings more people to the party I'm all for it, but I will not be making the transistion and will likely compete in another division or only shoot ICORE.

Edited April 1, 2013 by ChrisC

[TGO]

I'm saddened to hear you'd stop. In truth though, there are many more 8 shot models available from S&W than 625 models that would be suitable for competition. Not sure on the price differences. Add a cylinder and a hand to that conversion of your 625 4" and it could be an 8 shot I think?

You guys that like shooting major are a tough breed!! That is my least favorite combination. I'm not sure I'd score worse with minor 6 than major 6. Haven't shot enough to test everything yet, but know I actually like shooting the 8 shot minor, and it's not because of the 8 shot part. That's just referring to which one I more enjoy when they go off in my hands.

BTW, isn't it interesting that they don't even make the 625 model anymore that everyone wants, but they keep producing/introducing more and new 8 shooters? I definitely have more cash into my 625 that I replaced the barrel and cylinder on than I have in my 8 shooters, which appear to hold up much better than the 625's do? someone could start a business repairing 625 cylinder notches and stay pretty busy!!

[Bubber]

....snip..Not sure on the price differences. Add a cylinder and a hand to that conversion of your 625 4" and it could be an 8 shot I think?

You guys that like shooting major are a tough breed!! That is my least favorite combination. I'm not sure I'd score worse with minor 6 than major 6. Haven't shot enough to test everything yet, but know I actually like shooting the 8 shot minor, and it's not because of the 8 shot part. That's just referring to which one I more enjoy when they go off in my hands.

...snip...

Rob, To add an eight shot cylinder to an existing N Frame you would have to rsise the barrel bore a few thousanths. Also I shoot my minor loads a lot better than my major loads, "Of course Chris C. claims that they are the same load.

[pskys2]

its been pointed out that my views have changed since I answered the poll and first responded to this thread.

we recently did some testing at a local match where it was just me and bubber. unless he train wrecked or the stage was 6 shot neutral the 8 shot was a clear choice. very few stages are 6 shot neutral, most are 8.

I would stop shooting revolver if it went to a 8 minor system. we have tested it locally a few times and the 8 shooters win big on stages that isn't just shoot 6 and move. the only equalizing factor is the disaster factor when the 8 shooter totally blows something. I am not willing to invest $1500+ into 8 shot gear to shoot against 5 people at a local match. I do own an 8 shot open gun (ICORE) and rarely touch it, as I prefer Classic division.

if it goes to 8 shot minor i will convert my 625's to be IDPA legal and start wearing my stupid fishing vest or just sell them outright and go to limited or single stack division.

In these tough times you make a good point chris, don't think I could swing enough for a new 8 shot for the benefits.

I'm not sure the change is actually going to happen anytime soon though.

What about making the 8th shot a procedural only? Anything up to that would be ok, A 7th shot would be fine, the 8th would be a 5 or 10 point penalty. A 5 pt would just nullify the shot, a 10 pt would penalize for it. Why don't you Rio guys try that for a few matches.

[jhgtyre]

its been pointed out that my views have changed since I answered the poll and first responded to this thread.

we recently did some testing at a local match where it was just me and bubber. unless he train wrecked or the stage was 6 shot neutral the 8 shot was a clear choice. very few stages are 6 shot neutral, most are 8.

I would stop shooting revolver if it went to a 8 minor system. we have tested it locally a few times and the 8 shooters win big on stages that isn't just shoot 6 and move. the only equalizing factor is the disaster factor when the 8 shooter totally blows something. I am not willing to invest $1500+ into 8 shot gear to shoot against 5 people at a local match. I do own an 8 shot open gun (ICORE) and rarely touch it, as I prefer Classic division.

if it goes to 8 shot minor i will convert my 625's to be IDPA legal and start wearing my stupid fishing vest or just sell them outright and go to limited or single stack division.

In these tough times you make a good point chris, don't think I could swing enough for a new 8 shot for the benefits.

I'm not sure the change is actually going to happen anytime soon though.

What about making the 8th shot a procedural only? Anything up to that would be ok, A 7th shot would be fine, the 8th would be a 5 or 10 point penalty. A 5 pt would just nullify the shot, a 10 pt would penalize for it. Why don't you Rio guys try that for a few matches.

I wouldn't go for that as an enticement to shoot Revolver Division in USPSA. Given that option I would do what I have always done and shoot my revolver in USPSA open, with my red dot, and use USPSA matches as practice for the IRC.

-ld

[Carmoney]

Most serious revolver people already have at least one 8-shot revolver that they use for ICORE, steel matches, or whatever. Chris, all you'd need to do is take the scope and comp off your 8-shot open ICORE gun and you'd be all set to go for 8-minor. There you go -- problem solved!

Let's all admit this is not really about money. We all know that over the long-haul the gear is the least expensive part of the equation. If you can afford to be playing this game, $1500 ain't gonna break you.

[ChrisC]

I would need to rebarrel my 627 as it has been ported.

[Koppi]

I think that by having a separate Revolver match for more than one year, will effectively entice more people to shoot the division-- Do you guys agree?

One other issue with this match may be the timing of the weekend! I know of two guys in MN that are not shooting it because of Mother's Day.

I think I heard someone say they where going to use a titanium cylinder. Is the thought that the weight reduction would reduce the peening effect?

[ChrisC]

Mothers day should be everyday of the year.

And there are now two only revolver matches: nationals and Memphis

[TGO]

Mother's day is every day! Maybe if this goes right we will be having a discussion reminiscing about how there used to only be a few shooters in the nation in revolver division. Whatever gets us to that point, no matter how many guns I have to buy, is a victory.

[Carmoney]

I would need to rebarrel my 627 as it has been ported.

Just put duct tape over the porting.

[Carmoney]

I think I heard someone say they where going to use a titanium cylinder. Is the thought that the weight reduction would reduce the peening effect?

John, the harder metal of the Ti cylinder basically eliminates the peening problem.

[Koppi]

Thanks Carmoney, But is the Ti worth the expense?

I agree with you TGO--- I got the 8 just in case!

[Carmoney]

Thanks Carmoney, But is the Ti worth the expense?

Both my 625s still have stainless cylinders, if that is any indicator of how I look at the issue.