tTito Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Just kidding. What would be cool, however is if USPSA made it Limited 8 for the single stack shooters who are carry-oriented and don't like magazines that stick out 2 inches. Also, I wonder if production will stay at 10 rounds? Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, just thinking....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I don't see anything happening until we see what happens with the elections. Even then, they are best off to leave things alone for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 So where would that leave all those other carry guns? What if I wanted to shoot a CZ75SA in .40 or any number of major caliber guns which hold more then 8 rounds but less then 86 million and which can be carried and shot in SA? What if you want to shoot a double stack 1911 type with reasonable carry mags? I think of Limited 10 as the Production on Steroids. I'm not even going to address the fact that many states are still going to be under the ban because of local versions. Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 As has been pointed out before Lim 10 and Prod. probably wouldn't disappear as there are several states that still have mag capacity restrictions (CA, NJ, MA). In addition keeping production with the 10rd limit keeps it open to a variety of guns, if you don't limit the rounds then it quickly narrows the number of competitive guns. Also there are a lot of people who now shoot Lim 10 and Prod that have a bunch of 10 round mags and like it the way it is. If you want to shoot high caps shoot limited or open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Just kidding.What would be cool, however is if USPSA made it Limited 8 for the single stack shooters who are carry-oriented and don't like magazines that stick out 2 inches. Also, I wonder if production will stay at 10 rounds? Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, just thinking....... For starters, there's a new rulebook coming down the pipe --- so we'll have rules stability for a couple of years, i.e. there won't be any division changes made. Want to use 8 round mags in your SS because the ten rounders offend you? There's nothing stopping you! That doesn't mean however, that everyone else should be forced to ditch their ten rounders..... I own more Wilson ten rounders than 7 & 8 rounders combined. Now if I could just figure out how to fit 'em in my Glock...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Besides that, the round count limitations give us a variety of divisions to shoot --- eliminating the capacity restriction from PD and L10 gives us minor scoring, double action first shot, no race holster Limited and Limited Division respectively. Want to shoot your high-cap DA auto with mags filled up? There's a place for you to do just that --- either Limited or Open. I've done both --- with minor scoring nines..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Should the AWB sunset next week, the director of Area 3 will not be voting in favor of eliminating the 10 round restrictions in Limited 10 and Production. As a matter of fact, I doubt that any Area Director will be asking to remove the round restrictions in Limited 10 and Production. Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Should the AWB sunset next week, the director of Area 3 will not be voting in favor of eliminating the 10 round restrictions in Limited 10 and Production.As a matter of fact, I doubt that any Area Director will be asking to remove the round restrictions in Limited 10 and Production. Arnie Bless you and anyone else that has the good sense not to recombobulate the divisions....again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnshapiro Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 In addition, for those of us in CA, they still have a mag limit law on the books. It doesn't sunset with the AWB. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I agree not to change anything in a hurry. But 1 y or so down the road, when it becomes likely that no mag capacity restrictions will be resurrected at the federal level, I sincerely hope that USPSA will consider removing their own 10-rd "ban". Stability is very important, but imposing more restrictions than the feds seems over the top. Just because some states retain a ban is not enough of an argument that all of USPSA should stick with it. We cannot operate on the lowest common denominator, or we'd have to quit permitting handguns/firearms because the cities of Chicago and New York or the state of Hawaii (?) don't allow them. IPSC has not gone to airguns just because a member country like Britain outlawed handguns, either. The 10-rd limit was a good response to federal legislation, but if that is gone for good (not that I am too confident about it...) we/USPSA should get rid of it, too. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Come on change it just so a bunch of people can get their panties all in a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterLefty Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I agree with Arnie, and I don't even shoot limited or its variants. I read on another posting system that someone wanted to make our L10 into a single stack division to recognize the 1911. I sure that they would not like it when I showed up with my old 38 super, without comp, and 11 rounds flush fitting magazines. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 We cannot operate on the lowest common denominator, or we'd have to quit permitting handguns/firearms because the cities of Chicago and New York or the state of Hawaii (?) don't allow them. IPSC has not gone to airguns just because a member country like Britain outlawed handguns, either. The 10-rd limit was a good response to federal legislation, but if that is gone for good (not that I am too confident about it...) we/USPSA should get rid of it, too. IMHO Production and Limited 10 exist and are popular largely because they offer a place for brand new shooters to compete with guns they already own, and that one can be competitive with a relatively cheap gun (under 1K for the whole setup for say a Glock 34 or a tad more for a L10 Kimber). Making Prod not have a round limit wouldn't change that, but it would narrow the # of competitive guns (because of capacity issues). Eliminating L10 would leave only one place for the new and or cheap competitor to play really (that place being production), so the guy with off the shelf single stack 1911 doesn't have a place to play. Keeping L10 doesn't lose USPSA anything, eliminating it DOES. All the stuff about USPSA bowing to federals laws, blah blah is irrelevant. USPSA should seek to make the rules fit the demands and situations of its competitors and LIKELY competitors, Production and L10 do just that FINE the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 We cannot operate on the lowest common denominator, or we'd have to quit permitting handguns/firearms because the cities of Chicago and New York or the state of Hawaii (?) don't allow them. IPSC has not gone to airguns just because a member country like Britain outlawed handguns, either. The 10-rd limit was a good response to federal legislation, but if that is gone for good (not that I am too confident about it...) we/USPSA should get rid of it, too. IMHO Production and Limited 10 exist and are popular largely because they offer a place for brand new shooters to compete with guns they already own, and that one can be competitive with a relatively cheap gun (under 1K for the whole setup for say a Glock 34 or a tad more for a L10 Kimber). Making Prod not have a round limit wouldn't change that, but it would narrow the # of competitive guns (because of capacity issues). Eliminating L10 would leave only one place for the new and or cheap competitor to play really (that place being production), so the guy with off the shelf single stack 1911 doesn't have a place to play. Keeping L10 doesn't lose USPSA anything, eliminating it DOES. All the stuff about USPSA bowing to federals laws, blah blah is irrelevant. USPSA should seek to make the rules fit the demands and situations of its competitors and LIKELY competitors, Production and L10 do just that FINE the way they are. Agreed. The SS 1911 would be left without a home (as would those who like to reload a lot), and the diversity that we currently see in Production (i.e., what equipment is used) would probably disappear. Granted, lots of people already use Glocks, but if full-cap mags are allowed, I'd bet some would switch just to have the two-round capacity advantage that the 17/34 has over its market-share competitors. Leave the Divisions alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I can't believe this is being discussed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I can't believe this is being discussed again. Agreed! (Will it EVER end?) I think it should be a forum rule that anyone that doesn’t actively shoot in a particular division should banned from offering advice as to the rules of that division! I don’t shoot Open or Production or Revolver so it’s absolutely none of MY business how those divisions operate so I don’t comment on them. I sure wish others could do the same... Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 The other options would be to make all divisions 10 rounds only since that would make the game harder . Of course, I don't see this sport as having much to do with reality anyway so I might not be speaking for the majority <ducks for cover> It would end the discussions in an unexpected way ... Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I can't believe this is being discussed again. Good point. CLOSED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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