9mm major or .38 super?

[TGibe]

I guess it depends on your perspective... I started with 38 Super because the entry cost was lower and I could pick up my brass most of the time. I just picked up a 9major rig and have started loading for that. The guns feel about the same to me, but like I said I was able to get into a 38 Super gun cheaper. Only time will tell if shooting 9major will be cheaper, but my guess is it will cost about the same or a little more if I leave the 9mm brass on the ground vs. picking up 80% of my supers per match. I have had reasonably good luck buying used 38Super brass, but have also bought some new brass occasionally.

[remoandiris]

2 yrs ago I bought a lightly used 9 built by Dave Pruitt. If it had been a Super, I would have bought it. As already mentioned, while Super has more powder options, you likely will find a powder you like and stick with it. I've used Autocomp since I bought the gun and have no intention of changing.

Find a gun built by a reputable dealer and buy it. Don't waste time worrying about caliber. If you want to shoot Open, do it.

BTW, my 9 runs flawlessly. Me, OTOH, not so much.

[DirkD]

let's forget about brass costs for a minute:

which caliber shoots better?

i shot both, i like both, they both work reliable, the super is a little more easy to reload.

there is no superior cartridge in this comparison, just pick one and go shoot it.

AMEN brother

I'm gonna go for the 38

I live in the Philippines by the way,

and yeah in all matches, every stage has a couple of guys picking up brasses

[DirkD]

let's forget about brass costs for a minute:

which caliber shoots better?

i shot both, i like both, they both work reliable, the super is a little more easy to reload.

there is no superior cartridge in this comparison, just pick one and go shoot it.

AMEN brother

I'm gonna go for the 38

I live in the Philippines by the way,

and yeah in all matches, every stage has a couple of guys picking up brasses

[PittsDriver]

I love these discussions. It's like watching a Ford versus Chevy argument.

FWIW, My open gun is a Limcat Tigercat in 38 Super.

RT

[nexus]

let's forget about brass costs for a minute:

which caliber shoots better?

i shot both, i like both, they both work reliable, the super is a little more easy to reload.

there is no superior cartridge in this comparison, just pick one and go shoot it.

AMEN brother

I'm gonna go for the 38

I live in the Philippines by the way,

and yeah in all matches, every stage has a couple of guys picking up brasses

yah that's right there guys ready to pick your brass

[stockton]

9mm pros: my back doesn't hurt. Brass cost is not relevant. 9mm shooters don't police their brass so they have to buy 1x (yeah, suuuuure) fired. That offsets the cost of the super brass you have to replenish periodically.

.38 super pros: larger powder choices mean you can get a load a LITTLE more tailored to you. IE, "softer" shooting. However, that isn't exactly the case. It's the same, the 9mm just is more "violent." I surmise due to higher pressures. Using 9mm isn't gonna hold you out of M or GM. (Me = GM...on the good days at least.)

9mm seems to be catching up. I suspect that its because we are getting lazier. Opefully, we'll see more powders coming t market to supply the demand.

[bassochist]

let's forget about brass costs for a minute:

which caliber shoots better?

i shot both, i like both, they both work reliable, the super is a little more easy to reload.

there is no superior cartridge in this comparison, just pick one and go shoot it.

AMEN brother

I'm gonna go for the 38

I live in the Philippines by the way,

and yeah in all matches, every stage has a couple of guys picking up brasses

in our country it is mandatory to pick up brass.

[Sarge]

9mm seems to be catching up.

Just wait until somebody wins the Open Nationals with a 9mm. Then you will see the beginning of the end for super. Gunmakers will tell you they are already building many more 9's than 38's as it is. A big win will be the nail in the coffin.

[Seth Long]

Technically it is mandatory here too... its called littering. But nobody says anything because if you leave it on the ground it will get picked up by someone at the end of the day.

[DirkD]

let's forget about brass costs for a minute:

which caliber shoots better?

i shot both, i like both, they both work reliable, the super is a little more easy to reload.

there is no superior cartridge in this comparison, just pick one and go shoot it.

AMEN brother

I'm gonna go for the 38

I live in the Philippines by the way,

and yeah in all matches, every stage has a couple of guys picking up brasses

in our country it is mandatory to pick up brass.

what I meant was a couple of guys are assigned to pick-up brasses after every competitor and returns it to the shooter

the thing here is brass are no problemo for me as I will be having it back for sure

so 38 super is the way to go for me..

[bassochist]

that's a good thing, here you pick up the brass from the shooter wich shoots after you, and if you are the last one on a squad you pick the brass from the first shooter, but the last few matches most people forgot about it, so brass cases where all over the place, not very handy on a shooting range with a concrete floor.

[DirkD]

that sucks

that's a good thing, here you pick up the brass from the shooter wich shoots after you, and if you are the last one on a squad you pick the brass from the first shooter, but the last few matches most people forgot about it, so brass cases where all over the place, not very handy on a shooting range with a concrete floor.

that sucks man

we pay around $15 for level 1 and around $30 USD for lev 2 and up

and basically all the ranges here provides guys to pick up brasses

so 38 would be the way to go for me

I reload on my own so powder choice is a big factor for me

thanks for all the inputs

I'm finally at peace with my choice

[glock_2010]

But who is the 1st place? 38SC or9?

if 9mm was better all top shooters would use it, i bet if even 1 of the top 10 at the nationals shot 9mm we would all be surprised

4th place and 8th place shooters at the 2012 Open Nationals shot 9mm.

How do I know? Because Glock doesn't make mags that fit 38s for the 4th place shooter and I shoot with the 8th place shooter every weekend.

Edited January 28, 2013 by glock_2010

[Sudden Death]

I dont have a open gun yet, but I do know when I get one it will be 38 SC, and just so happens that's what Max Micel uses, but that's not my reason

Edited January 28, 2013 by Sudden Death

[PaulW]

After shooting both 38 super and Major 9, my take is that Major 9 is about 5-10% less efficient. This can be overcome with practice and finding the right load. So many times I have seen someone who only knew Major 9 shoot a 38 super and they are amazed at how mild and soft they shoot. Now a shorty in 9 Major is simething I just never got use to. Damn things would jar your teeth. I like a full size gun with a 9-10lb spring that is dead accurate. Now this is all just my opinion, everyone has their own feel snd perception. Also I searched for years for the flattest softest load....dont fall into that trap. A gun that cycles so fast (ie shorties) or one that is to flat shooting will actually be harder to shoot and learn. Guess why? Because you loose your visual reference in calling shots. If you cant see the dot lift it makes it really really difficult.

[Alphamikefoxtrot]

I have read all three pages of this thread and unless I missed it somewhere, the argument of "that's what the pros shoot" has never been correctly answered. They shoot 38SC because that is what their sponsor give them. If it were all free, Sure, I would shoot SC too. For no reason other than to be able to say, "Hey, look at me, I shoot SC". I have shot both. My Bedell 9mm had never had an issue. I shoot 9MM because I'm not picking up brass after a match. We have brass whores who love to do that, so I let them have mine. My primers are far from flat with the exact 173 PF loads that I have shot for the past three years. I have absolutely no issues reloading for 9mm, and no ejection problems. I went with a sideways mount because I like to have the same index as my limited gun and the dot is "on" through a much greater range due to the lower-to-bore-axis-ness of the sideways mount.

You think Max Michel likes those ugly ass revision glasses? Hell no, he wears them because revision pays him to. You actually think Jerry loads on a RCBS, nope again. Watch his youtube videos. He is sitting in front of a row of Dillons. Those guys do what they do because they are paid to do it that way.

the only advantage to SC if is you want to run a vertical mount on your dot. You will have more reliable ejection with SC. Not because it is SC, but because it is all the same headstamp. If you sorted 9mm and only shot the same headstamp, you would have the same reliability with 9mm.

[PaulW]

"the only advantage to SC if is you want to run a vertical mount on your dot. You will have more reliable ejection with SC. Not because it is SC, but because it is all the same headstamp. If you sorted 9mm and only shot the same headstamp, you would have the same reliability with 9mm. "

So all supercomp brass is all the head stamp? Not! 9mm being such a small case makes it far harder to tune correctly. That little case loves to do crazy things. Yes 9mm can be made to run ALMOST as reliable as super/supercomp. Your also running roughly a grain less powder for the same pf which equals a less efficient gun, albeit by only a small margin (5-10%) IMO.

[Alphamikefoxtrot]

Yes,

90% of all the SC brass is Starline. Sure, there is TJ, and a few others, but most is the same.

Last time I checked, the same effect with a grain less powder means MORE EFFICIENT. Doing more with less.

The reason that 9mm cases do crazy things isn't because it is smaller. It is because the dimensions on the different headstamps are all slightly different. The extractor and the ejector are grabbing the different brasses differently and thus ejecting differently.

I could sit here and say that my old SC gun hung up all the time and my 9mm has never hung up, but that wouldn't be a good example. The SC was a tanfoglio and the length that I was running wasn't right for that gun. You know how it is, you never have reloading issues until you decide to sit down and load 5000 at a time. 9mm definitely requires a few caveats. Same headstamp, or cmore mount that wont interfere with erratic ejection, spacers, smaller choice of powders (although the powder options are more than acceptable), but those caveats severely out weigh the caveat with Super or SC - That you must pick up your brass or run into availability or cost problems with brass.

[PaulW]

1 grain less is less gas to work the comp which last time I checked is less efficient.

[PaulW]

1 grain less is less gas to work the comp which last time I checked is less efficient.

[PaulW]

Oops sorry for the double post

[Steve RA]

That might depend on the pressures developed, 1 grain more means more gas, 9mm might have 3/5K psi advantage.

[Alphamikefoxtrot]

One grain less to work the comp has absolutely nothing to do with efficient. Efficiency has to do with results relative to input.

If my car can go 50 miles in a gallon of gas, it is more efficient than a car that requires 2 gallons to travel the same distance.

Efficiency, however, isn't a measure that we are concerned with in open guns. Can SC cases produce more gas and work a comp better than a 9mm? That is the important question and it simply can't be answered without knowing the info about which powders and amounts are used.

More importantly even than that question, however is "Is a SC gun flatter than a 9mm". That one also cannot be answered without lots of data on comps, powders, primers, springs, shooters , etc.

I, along with tons of shooters and smiths out there, have come to the conclusion that either A) a 9mm with the right combination of powders, projectiles, primers, springs etc CAN be made to shoot as flat as a SC, or the difference in flatness is negated by the massive reduction in cost and labor (picking up brass) realized by shooting 9mm as opposed to SC.

The bottom line is that they are both viable options and there doesn't have to be a right and wrong. They can both be right given different variables with different shooters. I made the choice not because of which one is cheaper, but because of which one allows me to shoot more and work less. Also, the women with the large breasts prefer a guy shooting 9mm over the SC guys.

[ctay]

Also, the women with the large breasts prefer a guy shooting 9mm over the SC guys.

The only time in history that women prefer the shorter case.

I have shot a very soft and flat 9major and I have a very soft and flat 38sc. It is undeniable that 9major guns *had* more problems but a properly built 9major today should run great. There is also an undeniable advantage in the 38sc case volume. Depending on the powder used that case volume may or may not make a difference. Bottom line - both can run great.

There is also the option of shooting 9major out of a 38sc gun. Seems there are many who do this with no ill effects - YMMV.