KentG Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Im going RIGHT NOW over to Galls and order some tactical gear! Do I get to use deduct points on my score at the next match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Does the IDPA "LGB" provide "double sky miles" for those saving reciepts for tactical gear purchased through approved providers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 My gawd, I have never seen so much petty jealousy in one place in my entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 ROFLMAO...!!! <---Ninja type SIGnature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If it's a competition, the emphasis is on SKILL. There is a subset of shooters who prefer a game where they can be excellent simply by verbal assertion ("My score doesn't matter; I'm tactically smart and would do better in a real confrontation than a GM IPSC shooter"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I try like hell NOT to agree with Rob on anything, but he's "two alpha" this one. (just kidding Rob) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 "If argument by assertion were valid I'd have my Phd by now." T shirt seen on a Phd candidate. Modified: "If tactics were valid simply by assertion I'd be in Baghdad by now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Rob nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 The downside is that I have so many pockets that I can't always remember where I put something, thus necessitating a systematic pocket search when I need to find my tactical checkbook or a stick of tactical chewing gum. Truly, the "tactical vests" are the male equivalent of a woman's purse. Cleaning one of those things out every few years is like an archaelogy dig. You'll find stuff you'd totally forgotten existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 I fear that someday I will actually buy a lottery ticket that is a winner, but I will lose it in my vest pockets, only to find it when it has expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaneACP Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Man, what a GREAT thread...Eric m'boy, you STONE NAILED IT! The weird thing is that when you're around people who really "have done," they're nothing like the Tactical Tommys. I spent last week shooting with a guy who's an honest to god legend from small wars around the world. He looks and acts like your basic Elizabethian English professor in college and talks a lot abut yoga. Or somebody like Dennis Chalker, who's humble, funny, kind and one of the most profoundly dangerous people I've ever met. Goes back to Michael's Unutterable Law of Really Dangerous People. Anybody who says he's (or she's) dangerous, isn't. If that person tells you THREE TIMES how dangerous he or she is, that person can be taken by my savage 13-inch ATTACK BEAGLE, Alf, who last night was badly frightened by a baby field mouse (true). and further... Vests??!! Vests??!! That's why god made Hawaiian shirts! Michael B PS: I understand I'm being flayed alive on some of the tactical lists for "not showing proper respect." Anybody know where can I get cammie gear by the pound??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Any Army/Navy Surplus store. It will already be aged, and with the differing name son it you can say "Yes, poor Skip, he didn't make it back, but his vest/jacket/bdus fit me and I know he'd want me to keep on the tradition." Where are they attacking you? We might have some fun jumping in on them and dishing some payback. Like you, I've met some "Been there, done that" types. I teach honest to god, real-deal "kick in doors, show the warrant, slap on the cuffs" SWAT cops in my other job. They don't boast about how tough they are, they amuse each other with tales of how inept the bad guys were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Like so many OTHER roles in society, the wannabes are wearing the clown suits and the real thing is positioned discreetly as part of the woodwork... just watching it all come down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 yup, like the reference I made to my local SWAT instructor / team member buddy. Very funny, and laid back, but ZERO patience for the Mall Ninjas telling him how to run a course tactically. Maybe the funniest was the local guy who is the small pond Tacti-guru at the local class 3 match. This guy was dressed HEAD TO TOE as an authentic AUSTRALIAN SAS commando and shooting a supressed sterling 9mm with optima red dot, and setting up the courses, AND telling you the dance steps he mde up as he went . On top of that he calls EVERYONE "cheif" with a derisive sneer . I shot the match with an older ex SF guy, and "SWAT buddy", I figured it would be a hoot, play with SWAT buddies UMP and our hand guns.... Man was that scary!! The best shooter out there (yes, including the "Aussie SAS Operator" ) could not have made "C" class, but here we were a solid "B" an "A" and an "M" and EVERYONE wanted to coach us, shaking their heads if we burned a course down, as if we had missed the point. When asked something about their gun, these tacti-billies would as often as not, point it at you "while clearing it". The only rule on the range was "no loading weapons except on the line". We were used to IPSC safety standards so this was....uncomfortable at best, and SH*T you pants scary most of the time . I got a work out just trying to stay out of the muzzle sweeps, and a headache from looking for that one that would eventually get me. (OK, the 360 threat scan seemed appropriate at the time, but I didn't think it meant your fellow competitors). The other half of my work out was keeping my two buddies from choking the life out of the plethora of mall ninjas present. I look back now and laugh....so I had to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 5.11 pants fit, any old "T-Shirt" is fine, shirts received at matches are also fine. I have a few given to me by real people that I will wear from time to time since they were "earned". I absolutely will not wear a purchased piece of gear with any unit insignia since I did not "earn" it. I have no real problem with anyone that wears BDU pants, they are comfortable and allow for movement. I think that the 5.11 vest is asinine unless you are a photographer and need all those pockets. You need a cover to shoot concealed in IDPA, look at the weather and wear your street clothes, otherwise don't talk to me about IDPA being "Real" and IPSC being a game. My general comment to all that discuss "Real Tactics" is that this (IPSC/USPSA) is a game, IDPA is a game and as long as you keep score on paper and everyone goes out for dinner after, it is a game. I know a GM USPSA/IPSC shooter or two that absolutely smoke IDPA Matches, In fact I know a C Shooter that won his division at a major IDPA Match recently. If you wanted to see what really works in the real world, without getting shot, you could set up paintball guns to shoot back at you unless you neutralized the target within a certain very short time frame. Another method is the Force on Force training that is being done with Airsoft Paintball. Want to bet that the 6-8 threats presented in a typical IDPA stage wouldn't win damned near every time? If winning is described as you not leaving the scene and at least some of them surviving? Not me. Problem is too many people watch too many movies. Take your average Kung-Fu Movie. The hero is surrounded by 6-20 bad guys, he takes them all on, one at a time, then the major bad guy jumps in and the hero defeats him, next scene he is eating dinner, no bruises, no cuts. Real life, that crowd rushes you and after a few seconds you are on the ground getting the crap kicked out of you. Try simply to spar against just two reasonably trained and somewhat in shape fighters at the same time. If you survive you win. 6 armed assailants? Not much of a chance if they have even a rudimentary hint of accuracy in them. Wearing shirts with logos, so what, If I have a Para Shirt, I'll wear it, same for Bush or Springfield, I own them and I shoot them. What really gets me are the Major league sport team shirts or NASCAR Shirts. Most of the people wearing them couldn't make it around the track or field once let alone actually compete. If you shoot an HK, and you want to wear their shirt, fine, better if they pay you to of course. Carrying a knife, I think just about everyone does these days, Knife fight? Not if I have even the slightest option! I have trained in H-T-H with knives and sticks and I don't ever want to have to get into that! The slightest little slip and you are done, down and out. Flashlight? Sure, if the stage has a reason to be carrying it, of course. Just to always have it on my belt, nope. Its out in my truck or on my nightstand. As to those that have been there and done that, I agree with the sentiment that the vast majority of those that have are very quiet about it. One of my fathers best friends is an original UDT swimmer. In over 40 years of knowing him, I have heard three stories and those were greatly abbreviated. The Grandmaster of our school retired from contact fighting because no one would fight him anymore. To see him you'd think accountant, maybe doctor (which he is), but never unbelievable dangerous human that can cause you to bleed internally or break more of your bones in a blink than you knew you had. A most pleasant and unassuming person. Most people that have done, or can do have already proved that point to the person that matters and have nothing to prove to anyone else, especially to you and I. And most of the time we should be happy of that fact since the proof is not something most of us ever really want to see. To quote Jack Nicholson's character in a Few Good Men, "The truth, you can't handle the truth". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 Ah, I know it's the current cool thing to assert that anyone who really was a SEAL/Green Beret/Etc. are quiet and unassuming and won't talk about it, and I'll entertain that the majority may actually be like that. But they're people. They may be a little different than most, but any group of people is going to have some distribution of various personality types. There will always be at least a few who really are/were what they claim to be and are more than happy to tell you about it. And tell you about it. Consider the ex-SEAL guy who was on "Combat Missions" that just got killed with the three other Halliburton mercen...er...contractors in Fallujah last week. He was ... kind of a loudmouth, wasn't he? I've only met a few people in that line of work (or retired from it) and some are private about it, while some are not. Some of them make big money by not being private about it (e.g. Dick Marcinko). Some of that privacy is probably humility, but much of it can probably also be attributed to an elitist attitude (one that is obviously cultivated by such units for good reasons) ... most of us just don't rate high enough on some of their scales to be worthy of stories. And by now, there have to be a more than a few of the poseurs who have adopted the exact mannerisms and behaviors now being attributed to the genuine articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 They may be a little different than most, but any group of people is going to have some distribution of various personality types. I think "some distribution" are the key words here --- from what very little I know of the selection and training process, it seems that the individuals who complete it successfully have a lot of traits in common.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2002 Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 This has been an amusing thread. I agree there are lots of wannabes, poser and other just plain ***holes in the shooting world. What makes them so noticeable is the majority of really great people in the sport. I have been fortunate to meet a lot of the big name pistol shooters at various events and they have been great guys, even when no one is around. I have likewise met many real "operators". Denny Chalker was mentioned, a great guy. Unfortunately anytime a group of people get together at least 10% will be idiots. I see them all, I work at a gun store. It must be something in the air that brings the testosterone out. I have heard the pros and cons of all types of weapons, weaponsystems, ammo and shooting sports. Its not just pistol shooters, rifle and shotgun sports are not immune. The guy I work with was a chopper pilot in Vietnam. One day after the latest SEAL, SF, CIA killer/spy left, he looked at me and said, I must be the only guy that went to Vietnam and was not special forces. I told him someone had to fly them around and bring the mail. As was posted before if you keep score it is a game. What is going over in the middleeast is real. I enjoy the shooting sports, if I wanted tohave a hobby that was not fun I would play golf. Thanks BE for a great sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I just ordered a couple pairs of RRobins pants. Does that make me an opperator, a poser or just someone who looks DAMN good in anything? I was gonna get the vest but I figured I would just be over the top so I will use my old cabelas vest. Now back in THE Nam in the bush,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 16, 2004 Author Share Posted April 16, 2004 Goes back to Michael's Unutterable Law of Really Dangerous People. Anybody who says he's (or she's) dangerous, isn't. If that person tells you THREE TIMES how dangerous he or she is, that person can be taken by my savage 13-inch ATTACK BEAGLE, Alf, who last night was badly frightened by a baby field mouse (true). MB, Exactamundo. It's just laughable. Most of the tough talkers go hide in the corner and blubber as soon as the sh*t hits the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 For a reality check, tune in to a PBS show called Resistance: Untold Stories of Jewish Partisans. Quite the opposite of the snake-eaters, door kickers, and armchair commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Yeah, some of the most effective combatants in history fit more closely to those people than to the archtypical "super soldier." Alvin York and Audie Murphy are two guys you'd never pick our of a lineup as true warriors, but when they had to do it, they got the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Very interesting and some good comments, here are my 2 cents. I've spent 9 years in the Swedish armed forces and wear my "old" bdu's with pride when out and about in mother nature, mainly because I have not found civilian cloths to match my old gear. I'd never wear it at a IPSC match or in town because they don't belong there, for me it's a sport not a training camp. We have the same problem over here but not the same scale or size of it, it's a cultural thing. Our sport attract these "bad elements" and always will, What we can do is try not to attract them by stopping the use of stage names like"Gas station, Hotel lobby, Mall Ninja 1a" and course procedures like "On audible signal engage each target with one head shot each", and just the fact that the "old" target resemble a person are IMHO not the best way to project our sport. No wonder why we don't have olympic sanctions. On this side of the pond "political correctness" is the big topic in IPSC. Sweden is "leading" the way with forbidding the use of Practical, it's now called Dynamic and all clubs names, clothes, patches, homepages etc etc that include the word / sentence practical shooting has to be changed or removed. Guns / shooting is viewd differently around the world depending a lot on cultural background, A stage called kindergarden with the start procedure "gun loaded in baby carrage" might be politically correct in X country (not to offend anybody) but the sport would probably be banned if such a stage would be used in Y country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Sweden is "leading" the way with forbidding the use of Practical, it's now called Dynamic and all clubs names, clothes, patches, homepages etc etc that include the word / sentence practical shooting has to be changed or removed. Just a side note: Italian Federation has changed its name from "Italian Practical Shooting Association" to " Italian Dynamic Shooting Federation" several years ago (I guess it was 1995 or so). For this reason, I don't believe Sweden is "leading the pack" it this field, even if I like the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Oups - see how snowed in us barbaric northern vikings are. My apologies. Do you think IPSC will become IDSC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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