lawboy Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I have an '08 Shadow I recently bought used. The sear cage seems loose. The entire cage assembly can be moved back and forth in the frame, front to back, noticeably. In fact, when the gun is cycled by hand, you can see the cage move by looking at the rear of the frame where the hammer is. When the hammer falls, the entire cage assembly and the safeties shift. Is this normal? I have a hard time believing that it is. What needs to be replaced here? Everything -- sear, hammer, cage, safeties, disconnector? Edited October 25, 2012 by lawboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Did the previous owner change out the safeties? The "D-type" safeties which the SP-01 based guns use are different than the "thumbler-type" that the 75SA/85 Combat guns use, using the wrong type, while they might sort of work, might lead to the loose sear-cage condition you're describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 The gun has the D type, large safeties that are standard on the Shadow. I do not know if the safeties on the gun were originally on it or not, but they are the correct safeties for a Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Depending on how much play there is it may be normal. The sear cage is only held in by the safety and the ledge on either side of the hammer. My 85 is pretty sloppy and my shadow isn't much better. I've contemplated having the C at back of the sear cage TIG'd a little then file fitting it to the frame to see if I could get a better reset (along with filing the FBP lifter leg for minimal FPB movement) . I wonder if the sear cage has been tightened up on the Accu-Shadow? The safety could also be out of spec but I suspect it's more the cage to frame fit. As a side note, there is a number stamped into the sear cage. CZ USA used to (still does?) sell the cages based on that number. (CZ Custom only offers one sear cage per application.). I could never find anyone who could tell me the significance of the number. It's possible the assemblers in the old country might have chosen a sear cage revision based on the frame fit. Pulling that out of my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 The gun has the D type, large safeties that are standard on the Shadow. I do not know if the safeties on the gun were originally on it or not, but they are the correct safeties for a Shadow. Weird, IDK? Stu will be along to enlighten us in no time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highxj Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 It shouldn't be too hard to anchor the cage with a couple of strategically placed set screws, although I haven't eyeballed it. My Shadow 75 has a rather loose sear cage too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) Sounds like this is a normal condition. It seems odd and kind of low quality to me but I am used to finely fitted 1911 pistols so this is new territory for me. I will keep shooting it and see how it goes. One other thing I hate is how loose the safety is. I bump it on sometimes during a course of fire and that just eats up time as I figure out wtf is wrong and then resolve it and continue shooting. Edited October 25, 2012 by lawboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscjoe Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I have bunches of p9 cages spares that have two welds front and back on both sides. Loose cages give erratic ejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerlrrp Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Sounds like this is a normal condition. It seems odd and kind of low quality to me but I am used to finely fitted 1911 pistols so this is new territory for me. I will keep shooting it and see how it goes. One other thing I hate is how loose the safety is. I bump it on sometimes during a course of fire and that just eats up time as I figure out wtf is wrong and then resolve it and continue shooting. I use the low profile safeties. I would accidently bump the factory safety during a reload or negotiating a wall/prop and it was costing me time. You could also try changing the springs that hold the little v-tipped pieces (can't remember name). I think it's a common problem, especially with those who have larger hands and higher grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The sear cage movement is pretty normal and under normal circumstances causes no issues. From experience, the movement causes no problems with normal single action trigger jobs done on the guns. If setting up a gun with a SA trigger lin the 1# range, I would consider stabilizing it. I had this done to a P9 race gun back in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 The cage movement does not seem to be causing any issues so I will calm down and leave it alone lol. But it is kind of cheesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The cage movement does not seem to be causing any issues so I will calm down and leave it alone lol. But it is kind of cheesy. Yeah- the CZs have some design issues in my opinion... but all I can say is that they just work!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I look at it this way. THe CZs were designed to be a service grade weapon. heavy trigger pull, long hammer hooks. They have served well in that role. You don't get copied as much as this if you haven't done things that work. There have been improvements to make them more race like, but the heart of the gun is still mid 1970. As we try to get more performance-wise out of the platform, the closer things get to failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 I look at it this way. THe CZs were designed to be a service grade weapon. heavy trigger pull, long hammer hooks. They have served well in that role. You don't get copied as much as this if you haven't done things that work. There have been improvements to make them more race like, but the heart of the gun is still mid 1970. As we try to get more performance-wise out of the platform, the closer things get to failure. Agreed. But I intend to keep mine just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 David at Cajun Gunworks can supply you with an extended hammer pin retaining peg that will stabilize the cage. It will have to be fitted by filing...but is no big problem. BTW, David is one fine fellow. A-G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Gator - Do you have a picture of the peg? Is it just longer and sticks up out of the frame to put a little pressure on the underside of the sear cage? I had never thought of that. Interesting idea. The "#9" pin used in a bunch of different locations (hammer strut, discconector, trigger bar, bind pin for trigger spring) is a little longer than the hammer retaining peg. I might try making a "custom" (bubbaized) pin the next time I have one of my CZ's stripped down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 #9 pin is too long. so it is somewhere between the two lengths. Had a customer come in and could not reassemble his gun, because he has inserted the #9 pin and the sear cage would not go back into the correct position. you could try the TS trick. It has two small springs at the back of the cage that exerts pressure forward to keep the cage stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) Bat That's the idea...it's simple and effective: Just file/grind down the length to fit. Don't know about the #9 pin. Sorry, no pix. A-G BTW: A stable cage is pretty much required for triggers of two pounds or less. Otherwise, it's not really necessary. Edited October 28, 2012 by All-Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmeky Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Lawboy, I have done this many times for many customers. The solution is very simple and cost effective. I supply an extended length hammer pivot retaining pin that is trimmed to "nearly" fit. You can do this on your own by simply obtaining some .086" pin stock. Starting OAL is around .265", work the length down until the sear cage installed in the frame will fit the new pin. Check to make sure the underside slide rib is not contacting the top of the sear cage. You can now get down to 2.5#'s or less and be OK. David Gunsmith CGW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinator Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 This may be bumping a very old post but this problem can also be very easily solved by shimming the sear cage against the back of the frame, I used two 3/32" wide square pieces of thick paper superglued into the recesses in the back of the sear cage, it reduced all movement and greatly cleaned up the trigger pull. After a CGW Standard Package with straight SAO trigger the gun was shooting great and breaking at 2 pounds but had a tiny bit of squishyness/spring in it, but now that I've shimmed it the break is down to around 1.7-1.8 lbs without the slightest hint of spring or creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yigal Posted September 11, 2022 Share Posted September 11, 2022 On 10/25/2012 at 7:08 PM, blind bat said: Depending on how much play there is it may be normal. The sear cage is only held in by the safety and the ledge on either side of the hammer. My 85 is pretty sloppy and my shadow isn't much better. I've contemplated having the C at back of the sear cage TIG'd a little then file fitting it to the frame to see if I could get a better reset (along with filing the FBP lifter leg for minimal FPB movement) . I wonder if the sear cage has been tightened up on the Accu-Shadow? The safety could also be out of spec but I suspect it's more the cage to frame fit. As a side note, there is a number stamped into the sear cage. CZ USA used to (still does?) sell the cages based on that number. (CZ Custom only offers one sear cage per application.). I could never find anyone who could tell me the significance of the number. It's possible the assemblers in the old country might have chosen a sear cage revision based on the frame fit. Pulling that out of my arse. They made rough parts with large tolerances. And the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 in this part are intended to adjust the single and double action to the other inaccurate parts. In my experience, most of the problematic guns were sear cage marked 4 and the best were numbers 2 and 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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