Shooting Glocks in competition

[Jadeslade]

Shot my last Glock. The Glock is a great gun. It's a lot of work to shoot it well in competition. But the wham has kind of gone out of it since Dave left. Going back to where I started. Love Glocks for duty, and basic gun. Have fun all you Glock shooters. It's kind of like Apple, without Steve Jobs. Not exactly the same.

[MarkCO]

Sold all three of my competition Glocks. Running an M&P now and hope to try out the new FNS when they finally get the longslides out.

[Jadeslade]

Sold all three of my competition Glocks. Running an M&P now and hope to try out the new FNS when they finally get the longslides out.

Lot of guys around here have started using M&P's. Have to try one. I was told by my secret squirrel inside the government informer on technical matters that the M&P was almost designated a single stage trigger when they measured and used whatever parameters they use are. Don't get me wrong, I think the Glock is a great gun. Things have changed.

[MarkCO]

Sold all three of my competition Glocks. Running an M&P now and hope to try out the new FNS when they finally get the longslides out.

Lot of guys around here have started using M&P's. Have to try one. I was told by my secret squirrel inside the government informer on technical matters that the M&P was almost designated a single stage trigger when they measured and used whatever parameters they use are. Don't get me wrong, I think the Glock is a great gun. Things have changed.

Would not surprise me in the least. I've done a LOT of trigger jobs on Glocks playing with geometry and springs and such. When it coems down to it, the trigger on a Glock can never be as good as the triggers on the M&Ps or the XDms. Plus, the trigger job on the Glocks are harder to do and cost more. The new FNS has a lot of potential and will likely end up better than the Glock can be made to have as well. The Glock still fills a role, but I see it losing market share in the action shooting market, a trend I don't see to be easily reversed.

[Sarge]

Shot my last Glock. the wham has kind of gone out of it since Dave left.

WOW! That was pretty much the last reason I started shooting a Glock in Production. I bought one because it did something my M&P would not do. RUN. But I will say since going to a 2011 I don't see ever shooting one again in competition. Now there is a reason to stop shooting Glocks.

[Strick]

It's a lot of work to shoot it well in competition. But the wham has kind of gone out of it since Dave left.

When it coems down to it, the trigger on a Glock can never be as good as the triggers on the M&Ps or the XDms. Plus, the trigger job on the Glocks are harder to do and cost more.

Then you both are doing it wrong.

[MarkCO]

Strick, if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous...

[OUshooter]

Strick, if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous...

I keep thinking I need to try a Vanek trigger, but just can't seem to justify it. I just don't see how for the money it can be that much better than my ghost connector with ZEV springs. I realize there is room for improvement on the design, but I'd rather by bullets and just learn the glock trigger.

[MarkCO]

Strick, if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous...

I keep thinking I need to try a Vanek trigger, but just can't seem to justify it. I just don't see how for the money it can be that much better than my ghost connector with ZEV springs. I realize there is room for improvement on the design, but I'd rather by bullets and just learn the glock trigger.

A ZEV connector, ZEV spring kit, lightened ZEV striker and a .25 cent trigger job get you a much better trigger. After that, most of what you are playing with is overtravel and take-up. An overtravel screw in the housing is almost essential to good technique. The Vanek is certainly very good. I am sure he can do better on his own guns, as can a few others, but the tolerances are a PITA. Also, you end up doing a trigger job every 10K to keep the safeties working. There are a lot of guys running trimmed safeties and trigger bars whose safeties don't work as intended. Keeping all the safeties working in a stable trigger job with reduced take-up and overtravel at 2 to 3 pounds, easy on an M&P, not so on a Glock. 3.5 pounds, you can get there and keep it pretty stable long term with an overtravel and learn to ride the trigger, probably the best wisdom on Glocks.

[OUshooter]

Yeah. I've played with the overtravel adjustments, and have decided to just live with stock.

[OUshooter]

Strick, if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous...

I keep thinking I need to try a Vanek trigger, but just can't seem to justify it. I just don't see how for the money it can be that much better than my ghost connector with ZEV springs. I realize there is room for improvement on the design, but I'd rather by bullets and just learn the glock trigger.

A ZEV connector, ZEV spring kit, lightened ZEV striker and a .25 cent trigger job get you a much better trigger. After that, most of what you are playing with is overtravel and take-up. An overtravel screw in the housing is almost essential to good technique. The Vanek is certainly very good. I am sure he can do better on his own guns, as can a few others, but the tolerances are a PITA. Also, you end up doing a trigger job every 10K to keep the safeties working. There are a lot of guys running trimmed safeties and trigger bars whose safeties don't work as intended. Keeping all the safeties working in a stable trigger job with reduced take-up and overtravel at 2 to 3 pounds, easy on an M&P, not so on a Glock. 3.5 pounds, you can get there and keep it pretty stable long term with an overtravel and learn to ride the trigger, probably the best wisdom on Glocks.

I also can't seem to wrap my brain around the physics of how a lightened striker helps trigger pull.

[MarkCO]

I also can't seem to wrap my brain around the physics of how a lightened striker helps trigger pull.

It does not! It helps reliability. When you use a reduced power striker spring, the energy delivered from the slower moving heavier striker can result in ignition problems. When this happens varies, some out of the gate, some not until several thousand rounds on the striker spring. You are able to run a lighter spring with a lighter striker and still get the same energy transfer onto the primer with a greater margin of reliability.

[Jadeslade]

Strick, if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous...

[Gary1911A1]

I see the M&P taking over many former Glock Fans at my local club. Purchased a M&P and now I know why even with the factory trigger it's winning over a lot of shooters. The only significant better polymer striker fired pistol is the Walther PPQ. Bore axis is higher in the hand, but I don't notice the muzzle flip being a problem to me.

[leemoe83]

5" barrel, manageable trigger, capable of 3" groups at 25 yards, useable controls, lots of aftermarket. Everything else can be fixed with practice. If your gun has this I don't think it matters what you shoot.

[the duck of death]

*QUOTE*

if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous..

Guess I'll change my name to "Famous" Duck of Death cause all it costs me is the price of a Scherer connector + other no cost magic tricks to come up w/a 2 lb trigger.

My 3 G34s that came w/a 3.5 connector didnt' cost anything to take them to 2 lbs.

I can see NO reason to switch brands.

Edited October 6, 2012 by the duck of death

[Shokr21]

*QUOTE*

if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous..

Guess I'll change my name to "Famous" cause all it costs me is the price of a Scherer connector + other no cost magic tricks to come up w/a 2 lb trigger.

My 3 G34s that came w/a 3.5 connector didnt' cost anything to take them to 2 lbs.

I can see NO reason to switch brands.

I personally would love to see a how to thread.

I've done the 25 cent trigger job, but I know it's nowhere near 2#.

I'd be happy if mine was around 3.5-4#.

No jest, no snark, I really would love to see a how to on this.

[Rob01]

But the wham has kind of gone out of it since Dave left.

You are not going to shoot it because a sponsored shooter left? Wow. That's loyalty to Dave. LOL Not a reason I would stop using anything that works though.

[MarkCO]

Every "sub-3#" Glock "home magic" trigger I have tested has had safeties disabled, could not run through a mag without a misfire, had a 3+ pound trigger. Usually more than one of those three. When "famous" passes an inspection for all safeties and a trigger pull test, fine.

[midvalleyshooter]

*QUOTE*

if you can do a trigger better than a Vanek for $40, you would be famous..

Guess I'll change my name to "Famous" cause all it costs me is the price of a Scherer connector + other no cost magic tricks to come up w/a 2 lb trigger.

My 3 G34s that came w/a 3.5 connector didnt' cost anything to take them to 2 lbs.

I can see NO reason to switch brands.

I personally would love to see a how to thread.

I've done the 25 cent trigger job, but I know it's nowhere near 2#.

I'd be happy if mine was around 3.5-4#.

No jest, no snark, I really would love to see a how to on this.

Here is a Thread courtesy of Joe D: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52311&st=0

Info looks good. I run my Glocks stock.

Keith

[MarkCO]

Just FYI, there is nothing wrong with Glocks, but they are less forgiving of poor trigger technique. I made A class with the G35 and many have made M and GM.

2011 guys lie about their 2# triggers that are 1.5 while Glock guys lie about their 2# triggers that are 3. I just split the difference and went M&P.

[the duck of death]

All my safeties work and the guns run 100%. Look @ your trigger job methods.

Look these over:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549549&highlight=Duck+Death+trigger+job

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52311

[Religious Shooter]

I'm guessing the $40 doesn't include the labor/time involved, the "drawer full of ruined parts" and the headache of not doing it right the first/second/xxx time?

[MarkCO]

DoD, I think I first did a Joe D style modification in like 1997, 10 years before he posted it, so it is not geometry and technique.

Anyway, I see the look in people eyes when they have tried my full race triggers when they are running a Vanek, then the disappointemnt when I tell them they are better off with the Vanek because my time is worth more than a Vanek costs, and it will need to be re-done at some point. Sure, if you never shoot, you can make a 2# trigger job last for years, but pump 10K plus rounds through it, not to mention dry-fire, and you are better off at 3#s so it will last. When I was Chrono'd at Nats, the wide-eyed look of Chronoman was worth the effort as he asked if my trigger was even legal.

Plus, a long 2# trigger, for most people, is worse than a short 3# trigger. Trimming the safety tab helps, but that mod also wears out in like 10K. IF the Chrono guys would test the trigger safeties on every Glock, there would be a lot of guys scrambling to put in new triggers since their safety tabs are worn and the trigger can be pulled with the side pinch to fire the gun. And don't even bother telling me that Chrono guys check Glock safeties correctly, the VAST majority of time Glocks are not checked for safety function at all.

[Shokr21]

I'd like a production legal mod that would get a glock trigger down to 3.5-4#.

My 17 is stock, I'm waiting for a 34 from my local fun store that is an blue line distributor. So a 34 will be my production gun and the 17 will be resigned to carry only duty again.

Joed's thread was quite informative, but not something that I would want to do.

ETA: that doesn't cost a lot of money. probably just chasing a unicorn, as I refuse to spend $150+ on an aftermarket trigger that's just polished oem components. I like where my trigger is at on my 17 about 4.5-5#, but a little less would always be better.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Shokr21