Bob Hostetter Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 Is the 45 GAP cartridge legal for use in CDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 No, 45 acp only in CDP. Although you can use 38spl in a 357mag revo and 44spl in a 44 mag you also can't use 45gap in a 45acp in ESR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockCanMan Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 45ACP only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 I am sure that makes sense to somebody ... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason237m Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Isn't the rule that the caliber has to be indicated on the gun someplace? Though I'm sure not every .357 has the "/.38" on it. 45 Gap might be an interesting SSP/ESP round. You could hit power factor with some very heavy bullets moving very slowly. Edited October 1, 2012 by jason237m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 It's not legal in CDP at the moment. It may be one of the things the IDPA Tiger Teams are looking into, and that may (or may not) change. There are more than a few members who have raised complaints about the exclusion of the .40 S&W, 10mm and .45 GAP from the CDP division. They all, easily, make the power factor, and the .40 S&W and .45 GAP are in common use with many LE agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 A lot of sports have "protected areas" where new cartridges (and sometimes firearm) are not allowed. I think that is what is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World. Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR. OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World. Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR. OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"? You realize that different platforms ARE allowed in that division right? Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 << Its for 45's >> Actually it's not, it's just for 45 acp's ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solaritx Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) Bob, I believe that the " Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s." statement was more than your response of the ".45". The above statement is correct for IDPA....It is not just for 1911's....it has Glocks, XD's, M&P's even bastardized 1911's....those 2011's. Yep, all are in .45 acp but it is not just for 1911's. Heck, I even shot a few of those other platforms until I came back around and started taking my medication again....and started shooting my 1911 again. Garry Edited October 1, 2012 by solaritx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 You realize that different platforms ARE allowed in that division right? Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s. Yup. I see a fair number of Glock 21s in CDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World. Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR. OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"? You realize that different platforms ARE allowed in that division right? Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s. Yes... I realize that platforms different from the 1911 are allowed in CDP if they shoot the .45 ACP cartridge. I am classified in IDPA as a CDP EX with my M&P .45. But, that doesn't explain why .40 S&W, 10mm and .45 GAP are exluded from CDP. All can make the 165 PF, and two are common LE agency cartridges. Can anyone explain why they are not allowed... irrespective of the platform they are shot from? The .45 ACP rule makes no sense, unless one wishes to create a special place for an antique round that can't be competitive anywhere else. Would the inclusion of these other rounds further drive the .45 ACP into a deeper hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I can understand (regardless of agreement) why .40 S&W is not allowed, because it would change the game drastically because .40 would have a large advantage because of the smaller frame / higher round count in magazines. It would turn CDP into something more like Limited Major where it's almost exclusively .40 S&W. What I don't understand is why not just give everyone their own division? SSP 9mm/38super SSP .40s&w/357sig SSP .45acp/gap/10mm ESP 9mm/38super ESP .40S&W / .357 Sig CDP .45 ACP/GAP, 10mm JMB .45 ACP (1911s only) No changes in scoring, so there is no change in procedure, just more specific classes or divisions, whatever they are. Note: everyone would still have to make major and minor power factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 If you stay with existing CDP rules on the maximum magazine capacity of 8 rounds, the .40 has no advantage. All guns -- same amount of bullets. If all the loads make the same PF, with the same amount of bullets... it's the Indian and not the arrow. That is the point of those who advocate opening CDP up to something other than .45 ACP. Many feel that there is no logical reason for insisting that CDP be .45 ACP only. It does seem as if IDPA is creating a 'niche' for the .45 ACP so that it can still be competitive... and ruling out other useful 165 PF calibers fired from the same platforms in order to venerate the .45 ACP. Does the .45 ACP actually need that kind of 'help' to survive as a competition round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 I can understand (regardless of agreement) why .40 S&W is not allowed, because it would change the game drastically because .40 would have a large advantage because of the smaller frame / higher round count in magazines. It would turn CDP into something more like Limited Major where it's almost exclusively .40 S&W. I think that's the original logic -- but once you restrict CDP to eight rounds per magazine, it doesn't matter how many more rounds of .40 or .38 Super you can squeeze into the same space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. Edited October 2, 2012 by FightFireJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ? That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Does the .45 ACP actually need that kind of 'help' to survive as a competition round? Yes. Just look at the .40 in SSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightFireJay Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ? That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA. M&P 45 Full Size has 13 round mags. Can they not be used in CDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryff Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ? That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA. Single Stack allows other calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ? That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA. M&P 45 Full Size has 13 round mags. Can they not be used in CDP? Loaded with 8rds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) "Single Stack allows other calibers." Yeah, but "Single Stack" doesn't really mean "single stack", does it? It really means "1911". I can't use a 945, 745, 4506 or Sig P220, 952, etc. even though they have single stack magazines. This may be the only instance where IDPA is more rational/easier to understand than USPSA - savor it. Craig Edited October 3, 2012 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 CDP has an 8 round restriction? Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine. ? but all of IDPA is already a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match. Every division is round restricted, and unless you're shooting a singlestack, the restrictions are well below the capacity of most modern firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Remember, IDPA was organized during the 1994-2004 AWB when a ten round magazine was the most an American Commoner could buy new. The BoD elected not to suggest that members who wanted to be competitive should buy "grandfathered" full capacity magazines at $100 or more; or to look the other way as they illegaly assembled "high capacity ammunition feeding devices" out of "repair kits." They decided to follow the law, repressive and useless though it was. The 8 round CDP limit was no doubt to favor the many 1911s of 19ll brands, and not make it a G21-PO division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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