Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

45 GAP


Bob Hostetter

Recommended Posts

Isn't the rule that the caliber has to be indicated on the gun someplace? Though I'm sure not every .357 has the "/.38" on it.

45 Gap might be an interesting SSP/ESP round. You could hit power factor with some very heavy bullets moving very slowly.

Edited by jason237m
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not legal in CDP at the moment. It may be one of the things the IDPA Tiger Teams are looking into, and that may (or may not) change. There are more than a few members who have raised complaints about the exclusion of the .40 S&W, 10mm and .45 GAP from the CDP division. They all, easily, make the power factor, and the .40 S&W and .45 GAP are in common use with many LE agencies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World.

Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR.

OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World.

Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR.

OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"?

You realize that different platforms ARE allowed in that division right? Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob,

I believe that the " Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s." statement was more than your response of the ".45".

The above statement is correct for IDPA....It is not just for 1911's....it has Glocks, XD's, M&P's even bastardized 1911's....those 2011's. Yep, all are in .45 acp but it is not just for 1911's. Heck, I even shot a few of those other platforms until I came back around and started taking my medication again....and started shooting my 1911 again.

Garry

Edited by solaritx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Long Live The .45 ACP in its 1911 home! Yes, there is a place for that antique in IDPA and it shall be protected from any new technology; irrespective of the Real World.

Antiques must be protected. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go practice with my .38 Special revolver because I have a match coming up and am shooting SSR.

OK, in all seriousness... Koski has it right. But, remember who runs IDPA, and what guns HE builds. Do you actually think he might entertain allowing different platforms and calibers in his "1911/.45 ACP division"?

You realize that different platforms ARE allowed in that division right? Its not just for the 1911, its for .45s.

Yes... I realize that platforms different from the 1911 are allowed in CDP if they shoot the .45 ACP cartridge. I am classified in IDPA as a CDP EX with my M&P .45.

But, that doesn't explain why .40 S&W, 10mm and .45 GAP are exluded from CDP. All can make the 165 PF, and two are common LE agency cartridges. Can anyone explain why they are not allowed... irrespective of the platform they are shot from?

The .45 ACP rule makes no sense, unless one wishes to create a special place for an antique round that can't be competitive anywhere else. Would the inclusion of these other rounds further drive the .45 ACP into a deeper hole?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand (regardless of agreement) why .40 S&W is not allowed, because it would change the game drastically because .40 would have a large advantage because of the smaller frame / higher round count in magazines. It would turn CDP into something more like Limited Major where it's almost exclusively .40 S&W.

What I don't understand is why not just give everyone their own division?

SSP 9mm/38super

SSP .40s&w/357sig

SSP .45acp/gap/10mm

ESP 9mm/38super

ESP .40S&W / .357 Sig

CDP .45 ACP/GAP, 10mm

JMB .45 ACP (1911s only)

No changes in scoring, so there is no change in procedure, just more specific classes or divisions, whatever they are.

Note: everyone would still have to make major and minor power factors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you stay with existing CDP rules on the maximum magazine capacity of 8 rounds, the .40 has no advantage. All guns -- same amount of bullets. If all the loads make the same PF, with the same amount of bullets... it's the Indian and not the arrow.

That is the point of those who advocate opening CDP up to something other than .45 ACP. Many feel that there is no logical reason for insisting that CDP be .45 ACP only. It does seem as if IDPA is creating a 'niche' for the .45 ACP so that it can still be competitive... and ruling out other useful 165 PF calibers fired from the same platforms in order to venerate the .45 ACP.

Does the .45 ACP actually need that kind of 'help' to survive as a competition round?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand (regardless of agreement) why .40 S&W is not allowed, because it would change the game drastically because .40 would have a large advantage because of the smaller frame / higher round count in magazines. It would turn CDP into something more like Limited Major where it's almost exclusively .40 S&W.

I think that's the original logic -- but once you restrict CDP to eight rounds per magazine, it doesn't matter how many more rounds of .40 or .38 Super you can squeeze into the same space.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

Edited by FightFireJay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ?

That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ?

That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA.

M&P 45 Full Size has 13 round mags. Can they not be used in CDP?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ?

That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA.

Single Stack allows other calibers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

Where can you get a 13rd 1911 magazine that fits the box ?

That's the point of CDP, to give 8rd .45ACP 1911's a place to play, just like Single Stack in USPSA.

M&P 45 Full Size has 13 round mags. Can they not be used in CDP?

Loaded with 8rds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Single Stack allows other calibers."

Yeah, but "Single Stack" doesn't really mean "single stack", does it? It really means "1911". I can't use a 945, 745, 4506 or Sig P220, 952, etc. even though they have single stack magazines.

This may be the only instance where IDPA is more rational/easier to understand than USPSA - savor it.

Craig

Edited by Bones
Link to comment
Share on other sites

CDP has an 8 round restriction?

Personally, I think if you want to play in a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match then you should shoot SSP. It would be ridiculous to say, "yes, you can use custom barrels, slides, trigger work, magwells, etc... But you may only load 8 rounds in that 13 rnd magazine.

? but all of IDPA is already a round-restricted-everyone-is-equal match. Every division is round restricted, and unless you're shooting a singlestack, the restrictions are well below the capacity of most modern firearms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Remember, IDPA was organized during the 1994-2004 AWB when a ten round magazine was the most an American Commoner could buy new.

The BoD elected not to suggest that members who wanted to be competitive should buy "grandfathered" full capacity magazines at $100 or more; or to look the other way as they illegaly assembled "high capacity ammunition feeding devices" out of "repair kits."

They decided to follow the law, repressive and useless though it was.

The 8 round CDP limit was no doubt to favor the many 1911s of 19ll brands, and not make it a G21-PO division.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...