45 ACP Minor Power Factor

[Schedule 40]

Yesterday, I was doing some load developement with 185 grain Hornady XTPs. I was shooting them through my Glock 21SF. Using Win231, I worked up to 5.8 grains starting at 5.2 grains. I simply could not believe how light and soft, not to mention accurate, these 5.2 grain loads were. It really got me thinking about developing a minor power factor load for Production.

Does anybody do this, and if so; what are your favorite recipes.

I know of many that load .40 minor, but I've never heard of anybody using .45. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[superdude]

Yup. I prefer 230 grain bullets, but they are so pleasant to shoot! The recipes: Cast 230, 4.2 gr of 231. FMJ 230, 4.4 gr of WSL (powder no longer sold) or 3.6 gr of N310. Velocity is around 650 fps.

[Schedule 40]

Superdude, thanks for the quick reply. At what velocity do you have to start worrying about getting bullets lodged in the bore?

[superdude]

I honestly don't know. I've shot bazzilions of the 231 Cast and WSL FMJ loads. There was no problem or concern at 650 fps.

I recently tried some FMJ with 4.2 of 231 and they were really slow - averaging 574 fps. I was a little worried about those, but that is Hodgdon's start data, albeit with different bullets and seated deeper, and they post higher velocities around 700+ fps. But if I use 231 with a 230 FMJ I'll use 4.5 as my minimum.

[shasta214]

Just be sure when you get any lower than that you change recoil springs. Had some bad funky action when pushing some minor loads through my 21sf. that machine is made to be run hard.

[nwhpfan]

I shoot .45 loaded to minor because I simply prefer shooting the M&P45 over most everything else. So far I've tried

3.8 Clays 180LSWC: poor accuracy lots of deviation.

5.3 Universal 180LSWC. Very tight accuracy but unburnt powder. Sometimes seemed as if the whole charge would ignite and got a full juiced load.

4.2 Tite Group 180LSWC. Very tight accuracy, sub 2" groups 25 yards. Consistent FPS; Avg. velocity 733.

I'm probably going to try a powder between TG and Universal now; likely AA#2. But TG is good to go and the price of a 8 lb jug makes my overall cost near 9mm teritory.

[practical_man]

I regularly shoot 3.8 grains of Clays under H&G130 185 grain LSWC. Soft shooting, and it will stay inside 3" group at 50 yards if I do my part. Clays can get a little quirky in cold weather, so I bump up the powder a bit when temps are low. Crimp at .469".

Haven't shot 231 in the 45 for a long time. Might give that a try again.

As another post noted, Titegroup is excellent in 45. Economical too. It does burn pretty hot though. It will warm up the cylindr on my 625 to the point I don't like hanging onto it after a few cylinders full.

-JohnJohn

[nwhpfan]

I just bought a lb of AA#2 and am trying to decide where to start. Any suggestions. I checked a couple different manuals and I didn't see exact data for lead and #2 at the speed I'm looking for. Of course I'll start low and work up. Accurate manual says for 185 LSwC 5.6 = 895 FPS. I want to be around 720 FPS. If I start at 5.0 am I starting too low?

[RiggerJJ]

Im loading Montana Gold 185 JHP with 5gn of Tightgroup. Soft & accurate, about 150 pf. Runs my Les Baer just fine...

jj

[JFlowers]

For a while I loaded 200gr LSWC as low as I could. Changed the 1911 to a 9lb spring. Used the load as a starter for teaching friends to shoot. It would run the gun and that was all I cared about.

[njl]

Yesterday, I was doing some load developement with 185 grain Hornady XTPs. I was shooting them through my Glock 21SF. Using Win231, I worked up to 5.8 grains starting at 5.2 grains. I simply could not believe how light and soft, not to mention accurate, these 5.2 grain loads were. It really got me thinking about developing a minor power factor load for Production.

Does anybody do this, and if so; what are your favorite recipes.

I know of many that load .40 minor, but I've never heard of anybody using .45. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Did you chronograph those? I've loaded Precision Delta 185gr JHP with 4.7-4.8gr WST and it makes a nice soft load in the low 8xx fps range from my G21SF. I kind of wonder how much lower you can go and still cycle.

[wes777]

N310 or N320

[Jim Watson]

I have pretty much gone over to .45 Minor for IDPA ESP because arthritis and Major loads are less fun.

By the time I got down to where the .45 had the power factor of a 9mm, W231, Titegroup and WST were pretty erratic and while I did not think them likely to stick a bullet, I did worry about a low end round not cycling the action even with a 12 lb spring.

Flake powders in general were better. Clays, Solo 1000, and 700X all did better than the Ball powders but their large flake size required a vibrator on the powder measure for uniform charge weights.

So I went back to Bullseye. It meters well and gives more uniform velocity than Ball powder. Some say it is "dirty" but its fouling is fine and sooty, not the gritty mess of some others in light loads.

A 200 gr SWC and 4.0 of Bull will generally run a 1911 with a 16 lb spring. If you want to go lighter, it will take a softer spring. Brownells sells the "Type A" spring with the comment that a 10 lb straight wind is a usual bullseye shooter's choice.

Dan Burwell said you couldn't run a Plastic M&P that light but nwpfan and one local guy have disproven him.

[ricardo28]

As far as the Squib or bullet lodging is concerned, a guy on 1911 forum did a test. Just the primer and no powder caused a squib. Even with several powders at extremely low charges (around 1 grain or less) allowed the bullet to exit the barrel. Sometimes just falling out but still exited. Even at the lowest recommended powder charges listed in any guide, your well above any chance of a Squib.

[nwhpfan]

I have pretty much gone over to .45 Minor for IDPA ESP because arthritis and Major loads are less fun.

By the time I got down to where the .45 had the power factor of a 9mm, W231, Titegroup and WST were pretty erratic and while I did not think them likely to stick a bullet, I did worry about a low end round not cycling the action even with a 12 lb spring.

Flake powders in general were better. Clays, Solo 1000, and 700X all did better than the Ball powders but their large flake size required a vibrator on the powder measure for uniform charge weights.

So I went back to Bullseye. It meters well and gives more uniform velocity than Ball powder. Some say it is "dirty" but its fouling is fine and sooty, not the gritty mess of some others in light loads.

A 200 gr SWC and 4.0 of Bull will generally run a 1911 with a 16 lb spring. If you want to go lighter, it will take a softer spring. Brownells sells the "Type A" spring with the comment that a 10 lb straight wind is a usual bullseye shooter's choice.

Dan Burwell said you couldn't run a Plastic M&P that light but nwpfan and one local guy have disproven him

Whenever I hear about people doing what I'm doing and not getting the same resuults, it worries me something bad is about to go down...as if "I" am the one mistaken. Your results with Clays and TG are totally oposite than mine and Dan Burwell is much smarter than me. But I have been doing good with 4.2 TG and 180 bullet. I've yet to get out with my AA#2 but plan on it tomorrow.

I have a few test loads of 4.8 and 5.0 to push a 180LWSC. What does everyone think of that combination?

[nwhpfan]

5.0 AA#2 180LSWC AVG: 795! 143PF

4.8 AA#2 180LSWC AVG: 775 139PF

So I would like to drop another 45 FPS! Maybe it's not going to happen? I didn't have a lot of unburnt powder or leading at 4.8 so Maybe I'll work to as low as 4.5??? Otherwise I'll just shoot 4.2 TG which seems pretty good. With the AA#2 I was just looking for something a little softer.

Edited September 29, 2012 by nwhpfan