How high do you hold the gun on reload?

[Lior]

Elbow flush with ipsilateral tenth rib, strong hand supinated to reveal magwell interior.

[PrinC]

My best/fastest reloads happen when the magwell of the gun is no lower than chin height. When the gun is high, its a good thing.

This is what has worked well for me. Thanks to this forum I have seen the greats use this method, so I learn from the professionals.

[PrinC]

I try to keep my gun high enough so I can see into the lower portion of the magwell. In other words when I take my last shot before a reload, I bring the gun straight back without lowering it, then being right handed I rotate my wrist clockwise so the bottom of the magwell is visible.

This is the portion I wanted to quote, so my apologies. This method minimizes movement and so saves time. When speed affects everything else you have to be able to multifunction in the shortest possible time.

[Coach]

Could there be a difference between what the Super Squad guys want to be doing and what they end up doing? They are human.

I know I have had matches where I would have sworn I was not dropping the gun, but the pictures or the video say different. Everything has a point of diminishing returns. There is a range of height where the reload is acceptable and then it can be too high or too low.

[Sin-ster]

Could there be a difference between what the Super Squad guys want to be doing and what they end up doing? They are human.

One or two of them, sure.

An entire squad, save one person (who is probably the one who conducted it at a point he did not intend to)... Probably not.

Again, the speed of the reload is totally relavent to the type of shot-to-shot we're facing.

In a stand-and-deliver Speed Shoot, keeping the gun up is going to be the fastest. If you're covering 5-10 yards of movement in the process, you can probably move faster if you drop the gun a little bit.

This is definitely something that everyone should run on the timer to figure out for themselves. Though it seems universal (to me at least), it may very well be different from one shooter to the next. (Just remember that in terms of the moving reloads, your footwork is more important than your hands-- don't be fooled by results if you're still not getting up to full speed right out of the first position!)

[juan]

try reloading with the gun in your face while running,

Ill bet you will drop it lower too, more control

[Caffeinated]

During dry fire practice I always have the trigger guard around nose height but in matches I always wind up dropping it down to around chest height.

Bringing my reloads up to face level in matches has been a goal of mine but this discussion has me rethinking the importance of it.

[Neomet]

My opinion is in line with Sin's. If you are doing a stand and deliver classifier with a reload what you are doing is shot, reload, shot. Hands up rocks it there. Unless things go awry what we are doing on a field course though is shot, run to spot, shot. We are normally not even looking to pick up the sights after the reload, we are looking at the next mark we are running to.

Personally I quit worrying about eye level reloads on the run after watching several vids of the Super Squads and watching the swarm of local GMs. YMMV

[lumpygravy]

The situation may and should dictate the high vs. not-so-high position.

Though I have yet to check some video of myself, my thinking tells me that picking one position will help with overall consistency of the skill.

Edited June 19, 2012 by lumpygravy

[TerryYu]

This is a slight thread jack but I didn't want to clog up the forum with stupid questions. How high is your support elbow/ do you fully extend your shooting arm?

I was watching a video of steel challenge super squad and noticed some shooters shot with bent arms, holding the gun closer to the body. I tried this and it was faster in dry fire to haul the gun around. I wonder if this advantage is offset by poorer recoil control? I was testing elbows almost locked vs support elbow bent almost parallel to the ground. Seems like this hold "pinches" the gun in place. Anyone else hold their gun like that?

[Sin-ster]

This is a slight thread jack but I didn't want to clog up the forum with stupid questions. How high is your support elbow/ do you fully extend your shooting arm?

I was watching a video of steel challenge super squad and noticed some shooters shot with bent arms, holding the gun closer to the body. I tried this and it was faster in dry fire to haul the gun around. I wonder if this advantage is offset by poorer recoil control? I was testing elbows almost locked vs support elbow bent almost parallel to the ground. Seems like this hold "pinches" the gun in place. Anyone else hold their gun like that?

In this regard, I'm a firm believer in what feels the most natural-- provided you're not completely losing all of your ability to manage the recoil.

Early on (and as recently as 4 months ago), my elbows were almost completely locked out-- it appeared on video and in photos that they were, with my arms almost completely straight. I compared that to images of other shooters of equal and higher Classification (in all Divisions) and found that I was the only one-- but I didn't sweat it.

Once I started working on grip strength training and paying more attention to getting more squeeze, the elbows naturally began to bend a little bit. I still feel 100% comfortable as I did before, but now they aren't quite as locked. Go figure.

Provided that you're not going for the Weaver method of push-pull to grip the gun, AND the sights track quickly and efficiently, I don't think there's much reason to worry about your exact elbow position.

I WOULD, however, caution someone who seems to have a radically different looking hold than the majority of the other skilled shooters. Chances are that something else is going on (grip, stance, head position, etc.) as a result or perhaps as a cause of that oddity. And that might very well be an indication of something that's limiting their ability to manage the recoil.

[Agent #1911]

chest level about 12" away.

[ErichF]

Let me throw in the whole issue about ranges that require you to keep the muzzle below the berm on reloads (I shoot at one range that does this). So, do I screw around with an alternate load style because that one range, for consistency sakes, or do the same reload all the time and sacrifice a tenth of a second in all reloads at every range?

It's very hard to keep the muzzle below the berm when doing a magwell-in-the-face reload, at least for me...my wrists aren't that limp

[DonovanM]

This high. I've been working on getting it lower to hopefully gain some more consistency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW7UJFqp_7o&feature=plcp

Edited June 25, 2012 by DonovanM

[Sin-ster]

Let me throw in the whole issue about ranges that require you to keep the muzzle below the berm on reloads (I shoot at one range that does this). So, do I screw around with an alternate load style because that one range, for consistency sakes, or do the same reload all the time and sacrifice a tenth of a second in all reloads at every range?

It's very hard to keep the muzzle below the berm when doing a magwell-in-the-face reload, at least for me...my wrists aren't that limp

I either stick to one technique that works everywhere... or more likely, don't shoot at those ranges.

[armas]

Reload high on stationary reload, and reload low when on the move following your bodys natural position. thanks for all the input on these thread guys.

[Cobra99]

Another thing I would add, hopefully I didn't miss it in all the posts is: if you keep the gun high for a reload on the move and you trip, it's much easier to go forward and keep the gun in front of you. If it's low, you may not like where it ends up.

I would say, you need to be consistent in whatever you do. The higher the better, because you can see the magwell. I do like the advice, sights in line with eyes, and for the most part I believe that is where I do mine.

Another thing, do it the same ALL THE TIME, for example loading at the Make Ready - load it like you are going to reload it. If you add variety to the reload, you'll never get it down to just instinct.

[remoandiris]

[Bigdaddypop]

I was dry firing today and noticed that I was most consistent reloading with the gun held way high, with the bottom of the grip about even with my nose. This looks pretty silly when reviewing the tape so I was wondering how high other people hold their guns on reload as I see a lot of youtube videos of people reloading almost at the chest and they are pretty good (much better than me!)

High, face level, right in the work station.

[alma]

Here is a TGO video with static reloads which supports that you don't need to be at eye level. I also like that this video gives a more realistic time expectation for shot to shot reloads (i.e. Expectations for 1 second mag changes may be unrealistic).

I think if you are just learning then start higher but don't do anything that feels too unnatural. I shoot production and have always found shoulder high reloads felt the best and gave me the most consistency. Also, I have been paying more attention to the angle of my gun on mag insertion. I think that may have been the cause of many of my missed reloads.

[alma]

On a somewhat related note I though I would share a picture of what's left of the mag well on my Glock 34 after several years of flubbed dry fire reload drills and competition. Guess which one is the 34. I have to say that for me reloading and planning for reloads is what makes Production such a fun division to shoot.

[Sin-ster]

Found this one of Vogel, going LOW...

[TerryT]

Next, consider the gun...

A Production gun without a magwell requires a much more precise insertion, and I personally feel that it's much easier to conduct when you bring the pistol in lower. We talk about "work space"-- I can't come up with a single task that I conduct with both hands up in my face, unless it's absolutely required... Do you text with the phone way up by your nose, or way down around your chest?

I agree 100%. Shooting production, my quickest and smoothest reloads are actually a little below chest level. I just seem to be able to hit the opening without even thinking. I am faster to the shot up around my face, when I hit it but the consistency isn't there.

[benos]

For me, what worked the best - have the pistol just high enough to be able to see he mag as it goes into the pistol.

be

[ricardo28]

I thought of it mechanically (as i look at most things). The angle of the magwell and magazine along with the arm position is the most important. Rather head level or waist level, you need to have the gun at the correct angle along with your arm. Seeing the magwell is not as important if your arm position is correct. I like to have my arm moving upwards @ about 45% along with the gun (For me, magwell at nose level). I have seen people to almost 90% reloads and it works for them. If your having trouble just hold the gun at different angles along with your arm and find whats comfortable and works for you. Gun at different angles and heights. Head level or not.