Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 it occurs at stage 5 in full speed this a little discussion we have going on full speed video occurs on stage 5 eyes of the tiger slow mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 even slowermo lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon12224 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Looks like a pretty clear DQ to me. Trigger guard cleared the holster while faceing uprange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Yer outta here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 There's a reason we don't use video to determine DQs. The RO on the scene didn't call it so it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Nope, and I am an RO. Not that it means anything. I hope you did not get DQ'd for that. You are way past the 180 before your gun comes out of the holster. IMHO. Edited June 5, 2012 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Stage 4 looks like a possible DQ too but video can have weird effects on judgement angles. Best policy is turn, then draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) There's a reason we don't use video to determine DQs. The RO on the scene didn't call it so it didn't happen. this is the exact point i am trying to make. It even had me questioning it and I did it. 10.5.16 Drawing a handgun while facing uprange. From the Glossary: Facing Uprange . . . . . . . . .Face and feet pointing straight uprange with shoulders parallel to the backstop. Draw . . . . . . . . . . . . .The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard. no I did not get dq'd by the RO but what i do is secure my gun by holding it in the holster until my gun side begins to turn. if you standing parallel to the backstop that is defined by the 180 it is impossible when turning into your gun to break the 180 given you dont fall down or point it backwards as soon as your hips begin the turn you are no longer parallel to a back stop. the only thing to judge at that point is the muzzle if if you flip the muzzle a weird way its possible. Edited June 5, 2012 by Mat Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon12224 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) At the 10 sec mark of the super slo mo video, the gun has cleared the holster and is clearly in violation of the 180. It is actually pointing pretty close to the camerman's feet. If you are facing directly uprange, you have to turn at least 90 degrees before your trigger guard clears the holster or you have broken the 180. Of course, we don't have the luxury of slo mo video at the range, but if you want to analize this frame by frame, DQ. No question. Edited June 5, 2012 by deacon12224 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'd have issued a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I didn't see enough in the video to definitively issue a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) now I will let you guys in on the secret. I was not even close to a dq. this is why when a DQ occurs at match that i have given and someone wants to protest with video I always say i don't need to see the video. this is a video angle trick. that i didnt even realize until i went and watched someone elses video. at the 10 secdon mark my shoulder and gun is in line with the center target the cameraman was standing parallel to me but at an angle to the the targets. idf the targets where in view it would be clear.watch closely my gun never continues to mover with my body it stay aimed at the targets as my support catches up to the turn. and i press out. Edited June 5, 2012 by Mat Price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 There's a reason we don't use video to determine DQs. The RO on the scene didn't call it so it didn't happen. this is the exact point i am trying to make. It even had me questioning it and I did it. 10.5.16 Drawing a handgun while facing uprange. From the Glossary: Facing Uprange . . . . . . . . .Face and feet pointing straight uprange with shoulders parallel to the backstop. Draw . . . . . . . . . . . . .The point at which a handgun is removed or disengaged from the holster so as to allow access to any portion of the interior of the trigger guard. no I did not get dq'd by the RO but what i do is secure my gun by holding it in the holster until my gun side begins to turn. if you standing parallel to the backstop that is defined by the 180 it is impossible when turning into your gun to break the 180 given you dont fall down or point it backwards as soon as your hips begin the turn you are no longer parallel to a back stop. the only thing to judge at that point is the muzzle if if you flip the muzzle a weird way its possible. In my opinion 10.5.2 should be considered too. The 180 is in all planes Up, Side and Down. Not arguing with you but with my 20+ years of RO experince I see a possible issue with the video and I know plenty of people that do a sub 1 sec turn and draw with no question of, if they broke 180. A small adjustment in your technique will add no time but not cost you a possible bummer DQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I would have DQ'd the SO in stage 1. How could he be watching the gun at all with his big gulp in front of his face. I don't shoot that much USPSA but it does not look to me like you should have been DQ'd. Like you said, once your hips rotate past 90 degrees it would be pretty tough to DQ you. (edit: I watched it again and now I could go either way) Edited June 5, 2012 by Paul-the new guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I don't know what the angles are but it looks like the trigger guard comes out of holster before you turn. Thekney to do that is to turn on your heel and get your strong side foot and toe pointed down range before you pull out of holster. The video looks like you pull out of holster them turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I don't think I'd issue a DQ. The turn starts before his hand is even on the gun. It all looks to me like one continuous motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 I need to change that not because i am worried about a dq but because what i loose in turn speed i can pick up in target acquisition. if i draw when my other foot hits i am more stable and can pick up the dot faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 I would have DQ'd the SO in stage 1. How could he be watching the gun at all with his big gulp in front of his face. I don't shoot that much USPSA but it does not look to me like you should have been DQ'd. Like you said, once your hips rotate past 90 degrees it would be pretty tough to DQ you. (edit: I watched it again and now I could go either way) lol he acutally didnt have it in front of his face he was trying to push in his hearing protection on tighter. stage one was our 5th stage of the day and I had beaten that poor fellow up all day with a .38 sc and 9.9 grains of hs6 behind a 115 fmj and 175 pf with a 4 port shueman and old time dawson 10 port comp all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 here is a video in practice same turn and draw i havn't changed the way i do it now you can see the targets at the angle at which the RO would be looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 here is a video in practice same turn and draw i havn't changed the way i do it now you can see the targets at the angle at which the RO would be looking On the second run I can see end of muzzle before you turn. I always feel more stable getting strong side foot turned first then bringing weak side around. It's the difference of turning or swinging gun 270 versus 90 degrees and less chance to get trigger guard out too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 here is a video in practice same turn and draw i havn't changed the way i do it now you can see the targets at the angle at which the RO would be looking On the second run I can see end of muzzle before you turn. I always feel more stable getting strong side foot turned first then bringing weak side around. It's the difference of turning or swinging gun 270 versus 90 degrees and less chance to get trigger guard out too early. its the same run just slowed down. ok so explain that better you sayin you plant your strong side ( dun side) foot and then just whip your week side rotating on your heel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 here is a video in practice same turn and draw i havn't changed the way i do it now you can see the targets at the angle at which the RO would be looking On the second run I can see end of muzzle before you turn. I always feel more stable getting strong side foot turned first then bringing weak side around. It's the difference of turning or swinging gun 270 versus 90 degrees and less chance to get trigger guard out too early. its the same run just slowed down. ok so explain that better you sayin you plant your strong side ( dun side) foot and then just whip your week side rotating on your heel? Yes, I put my weight on weakside leg, try to turn my gun side strongside foot point my toe downrange, so you get your hip around quicker. Not the best stage since targets where to the sides but you can kinda tell my left leg (weakside) is supporting most my body and I start with my right leg and try to get my foot downrange before I pull gun from holster. Turn and draw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Price Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 ok I see what you are saying i am going to try that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB33 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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