do you focus on sight when shooting short distance target

[dkwatch]

A newbie question

There are a lot of emphasis on front sight focus when pulling the trigger. But if the the target is fairly closed uncover, like 3-5 yard. Is front sight 100% focus necessary?

[PKT1106]

If the target is unobstructed by a no-shoot or hard cover, I generally shoot instinctively less than 2 yards, maybe 3. Between 2 and 5 yards, I like to have front sight awareness, if not focusing on the front sight. Further than 5 yards, I use the front sight.

If you are just starting out, you should focus on the front sight all the time to train your eyes and body to see it. Get the points first, the speed will come later along with refining your skills for various distances and target sizes.

[junkie]

There are front sights???? Under about 5-7 yards it is all instinct.

[dkwatch]

A dumb question:

Is it possible speed first and accuracy will come later?

[Flexmoney]

What is speed, really?

Are you somehow faster for not looking?

Physically, the gun is pointed at the target or it is not. It takes time to physically point it there.

It takes little to no time to look at the sights. (though it does take training)

[HoMiE]

You need to see something, I've missed plenty of targets point blank because I instinctively pulled at easy 2 yd targets. Our vision is much more faster though and I looked to next target and guess where bullet went and my surprise when I missed the target. Define focus and figure out what you need to see for a 2yd to 50 yard target and then you know what to look for to know where that shot is going when you pull the trigger and observe what happens next. Nowdays most targets I have misses on are the easy targets because I take them for granted. Give each shot the respect and attention it deserves.

[dkwatch]

Good point.

I have difficulties to slow down the shot. If I start shooting some easy targets and next is a long distance shot, most of the time I will have a bad shot. Because I don't know how to slow down my shot, with the long distance shot, it takes me about the same amount of time as the easy, short distance ones.

[HoMiE]

Good point.

I have difficulties to slow down the shot. If I start shooting some easy targets and next is a long distance shot, most of the time I will have a bad shot. Because I don't know how to slow down my shot, with the long distance shot, it takes me about the same amount of time as the easy, short distance ones.

Your not using your eyes, your just pulling the trigger and trying to shoot a cadence. Slow, fast, those all are a speed focus, thats what gets you misses on targets. The amount of time it takes to make the shot to know you hit the A zone is the time it takes. I cant shoot faster on a 50 yard target, if I need to see the sights perfectly still and not move for however long it takes to pull trigger. That is the biggest paradox in shooting I think, when you just shoot with your eyes the notion of time goes away and it seems slow but it is actually the fastest when you dont think and just see whats going on at that moment.

[Jaxshooter]

You need to get Brian's book and read the section on sight focus. After you do that then read it again. It will answer your question. Then read the rest of the book.

[GrumpyOne]

There are front sights???? Under about 5-7 yards it is all instinct.

Well then, my instinct SUCKS!

[theycallmeingot]

Don't think about shooting quicker. Work on getting the sights lined up on the target quicker. Only then, should you allow yourself to break the shot. There is such a thing as spending too much time shooting Alphas. New shooters are usually there. There is a sweet spot where you take only the ammount of time it takes to get an Alpha. These 2 times are worlds apart, and that's where you want to be. You don't want to be slinging shots, you're just shooting alpha's quicker than you were before. Slinging shots is inevitably missing targets. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's ever going to give you a better score purposely missing targets to gain speed.

Brian Enos said something along the lines of: It doesn't take any longer to shoot an Alpha than it does to sling a shot.

If you feel slow, and you want to work on something concrete that will increase your times, work on getting into your shooting position quicker and with the gun up. also, transitions between targets leave a huge time gap to fill.

Edited May 15, 2012 by theycallmeingot

[Son Of The Griz]

Short answer - I always look for my front sight, even up close.

The way I see it, I shouldn't be trying to shoot so fast I dump my fundamentals. Even after beating a local club's "triple nickel" challenge twice in one match, some people couldn't understand I kept a sight picture all the way through my run.

My "instincts" are to use my sights

[Xander]

I always look at my front sight even at close range targets, no need for a "crystal clear" focus, I just "know" it's there

[Reshoot]

Front sight, front sight, front sight

[daves_not_here]

You need to get Brian's book and read the section on sight focus. After you do that then read it again. It will answer your question. Then read the rest of the book.

Okay, went to my dog-eared copy of Brian's book. It starts with "Sights Or Targets" on page 64. He breaks down aiming "Focal Points and Shooting Focus" into 5 types on page 65. He generally covers every comment on this thread so far. He goes very deep and after many readings I generally have no understanding of what's going on.

I would like to bring up that these thread comments are directed to a beginning shooter. When I was beginning I was diligent in getting that front sight in focus and on the target. It told me a lot about what was happening, e.g. bad sight picture, jerk trigger, not smoothly stopping a transition. Front sight focus was invaluable and I found "instinctive", "cadence" or "flash sight picture" concepts were things that tripped me up because I missed flaws in fundamentals. I needed feedback so I could consistently have the gun aligned with the target and smoothly make it go bang. Front sight focus gives this important feedback.

So, in the beginning I would recommend the default - focus on the front sight at any distance for now.

Try to resist reducing your stage times until you're hitting with the accuracy and consistency you desire. Hopefully you'll see reloading and transitioning are where to make up time on a stage not sight alignment or "splits". I find that the difference in taking my time in aligning the gun properly compared to rushing is minimal a 0.1 second difference at most on 10 yard targets. Compare that to being able to reduce whole seconds on a reload or .5 or more on a transition, rushing a sight picture just isn't worth it. It becomes your choice, risk misses chasing a 0.1 second improvement or reduce stage time by whole seconds? The best part is reloads and transitions can be worked on with dry fire saving time and money. Matt Burkett's dry fire link

Is my math correct that most of the time can be gained in reloads and transitions?

Am I correct in saying that fundamentals need to be developed first before speed?

How did you develop your fundamentals?

How are you refining your fundamentals now that you blaze through stages?

DNH

[Sin-ster]

I definitely can't say whether or not this is optimal, and it's not something that I practiced-- it's just what I see while I'm shooting.

On targets at the discussed distances (5 yards and in), I seem to have 100% target focus for the first shot that breaks. However, in that .16-.18 between the next one, I become aware of the front sight in one way, shape or form. Sometimes it's crystal clear; other times, it's not.

I use a lot of periphery vision on closely spaced arrays even out to 10 yards, and do the same on even relatively loosely bunched arrays at short ranges. IOW, the first shot typically isn't wholly focused on the front sight, or perhaps even the second-- but those that follow most frequently have it in crystal clarity.

My trigger control sucks, but on arrays like those mentioned above, I don't drop points and it's hard to tell (audibly) where my splits stop and my transitions begin. As Brian's book indicates, you need only see what's necessary to get the hits in the shortest possible amount of time-- and thus far, for me, that's what I (need to) see in order to do that. (The same applies to plate racks, bunched/lined up poppers, the PPR, etc. I get into trouble when I start focusing in between and subsequently am not really seeing much of anything useful...)

[cannot]

Humans have no instincts, as biologists define the term, at least. Everything is either a reflex or a learned behavior. Point shooters miss the A a lot, under stress, at 5 yds plus, if you don't let them cheat by lining up their bodies on the target, prior to the start signal, and vary the height of the targets, as if on a hill side or a staircase, perhaps?. either that, or they are not faster than the sight using shooters. Under 10ft, tho, realistic fighting distances, point shooting works just fine, to get A zone hits, faster than sighted fire.

[theycallmeingot]

I dont believe the situation is so cut and dry to say looking at the front sight only is the best/fastest way for any one person to shoot. We are all different.

[cannot]

we are certainly different in our ability to function while under severe stress. :-)

[Chris iliff]

You need to SEE something on those close targets. Is it a perfect sight alignment? Probably not. Point is it has to be something.

I use to point shoot those things, too much room for a Mike. Now I look through my Cmore. It is up in my sight plane just like a regular shot. I can see the A Zone and at those speeds the dot is just a straight up and down line. But it's a line "inside the A zone".

I imagine you iron site shooters experience the same sort of awareness or could with practice.

Set up 3 close 2-3 yard targets and something else at 10-15 yards, like a plate, popper or just another target. Practice that till you are all A's and know what you need to see. Fun little drill.

[theycallmeingot]

If you're under extreme stress after the start signal, that's a whole different set of problems that no level of front sight focus will address.

[cannot]

Everybody who is expected to do well and who expects themselves to do well, will experience stress thruout the match. I once tried using a fake name, and the stress was gone, until people at that club starting expecting me to win. I found a secret weapon against this problem, tho, and will one day again be a proven top hand.

[LYNRDSKYNRD]

Your eyes see the sights......so why not focus on what your eyes already see?

[benos]

I found I shot consistently better if I got on the front sight, even for very close targets. It also felt that kept my mind calmer and more grounded, or less panicky.

be

[Flexmoney]

I found I shot consistently better if I got on the front sight, even for very close targets. It also felt that kept my mind calmer and more grounded, or less panicky.

be

Right on!

The sights give the best feedback on the shooting. Using them, we get to KNOW what is going on...better. Knowing is awesome.