Best sears with no secondary angle cut out of the bag?

[diehli]

In looking through photos of various 1911 sears on Brownells, it looks like many of the premier ones have secondary angles cut (STI, SV, C&S, EGW, Wilson, Ed Brown "Perfection" (not the "Match"; I have one, no secondary)).

It surprise me that the EGW sear appears to have it. I have one here that's several years old that has no secondary angle, so is this something that's changed? It's hard to tell from EGW's pic on its own site. I'm not sure the pic on Brownells' site is actually of an EGW sear since it's not "in the white".

The SV sear is listed as "semi-prepped" and looks to have a little bit of secondary cut. IIRC, years ago Brian mentioned that he'd worked with Sandy to develop this sear for rolling breaks. Given all the innovation SV's done since, that may or may not be the case anymore. The pic of their sear on their site looks like there may be more secondary angle than on the pic on Brownells' site.

The C&S/Extreme Engineering Ultra Match has loads of secondary. I've got one here and it looks to have more than the one in the pic.

I realize that, ultimately, most will want a nice chunk off of the trailing edge of the sear nose for a "crisp" break, but I'm looking for a good sear as a starting point for a "rolling" break. If EGW's still has no secondary cut, that'll probably be my go to.

So, those with experience with various sears, which ones are nice and hard and have no (or, perhaps, very little, like the SV pictured on Brownells' site) secondary cut when they come out of the bag?

[Braxton1]

If you have a good jig, secondary sear angles disappear while you're stoning the primary angle down. You could take any of the aforementioned sears and cut your own to get the type of break that you desire.

[diehli]

I'm concerned with reducing the length of the sear too much. And why work backwards?

[Matt Cheely]

EGW used to not have the secondary cut, but now they all seem to have it. I was almost going to ask George if he'd make some without for me...

[rooster]

Chuck Warner at Warner pistols sells a true radius sear without the secondary angle. He actually advises against one if you use one of his sears, but you are stuck with his primary angle which he developed. He calls it a true radius sear and can be used with hammer hooks as low as .o14. His sears are long so perhaps you could cut one down to the length you are looking for. Check out his web site and give him a call. He also sells a true radius jig which is outstanding. Very simple to use, no screwing around with angles and clicks just clamp and stone.

[kimberacp]

Warner concept of the sear, interesting. Isn't this what TGO and Brian where doing "by hand" to their pistol, early on? I think it was...

I like to hear what other gunsmith's might think?

[diehli]

EGW used to not have the secondary cut, but now they all seem to have it. I was almost going to ask George if he'd make some without for me...

Bah. Bummer. Everyone wants "drop-in". *sigh*

Chuck Warner at Warner pistols sells a true radius sear without the secondary angle. He actually advises against one if you use one of his sears, but you are stuck with his primary angle which he developed. He calls it a true radius sear and can be used with hammer hooks as low as .o14. His sears are long so perhaps you could cut one down to the length you are looking for. Check out his web site and give him a call. He also sells a true radius jig which is outstanding. Very simple to use, no screwing around with angles and clicks just clamp and stone.

That's precisely the basis for what a rolling trigger is.

I remembered I had this thread bookmarked: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11054&st=0. Dan Burwell quotes Brian in post 16.

I'll get in touch. Thanks!!!

[practical_man]

I bought some from Caspian a couple years ago that had no secondary cut. The work fine in my bullseye guns with roll triggers. Not sure what they're selling now.

[practical_man]

Chuck Warner at Warner pistols sells a true radius sear without the secondary angle. He actually advises against one if you use one of his sears, but you are stuck with his primary angle which he developed. He calls it a true radius sear and can be used with hammer hooks as low as .o14. His sears are long so perhaps you could cut one down to the length you are looking for. Check out his web site and give him a call. He also sells a true radius jig which is outstanding. Very simple to use, no screwing around with angles and clicks just clamp and stone.

Thanks. That might be worth buying. Sour bears the heck out of doing it by hand.

[diehli]

Chuck Warner at Warner pistols sells a true radius sear without the secondary angle. He actually advises against one if you use one of his sears, but you are stuck with his primary angle which he developed. He calls it a true radius sear and can be used with hammer hooks as low as .o14. His sears are long so perhaps you could cut one down to the length you are looking for. Check out his web site and give him a call. He also sells a true radius jig which is outstanding. Very simple to use, no screwing around with angles and clicks just clamp and stone.

Thanks. That might be worth buying. Sour bears the heck out of doing it by hand.

AutoCorrect, you complete me.

[benny hill]

Are what you are calling rolling is the same thing as I call creep?

[kimberacp]

Are what you are calling rolling is the same thing as I call creep?

right on! am happy with the way I get my triggers, if the smith knows what hes doing! I couldn't ask for more.

the goal of doing it the way TGO and BE, was that you could keep the hammer hooks tall @.20 or above and maintain a less than 2lb trigger and never have it miss the hooks, if the enagement went bad.

I think...

[Flexmoney]

Cullen, do I rightly recall that you had MV do a trigger for you back in the day? I think he follows the school of BE and TGO. ??

[kimberacp]

MV does. i remember someone telling an account of MV doing a Tjob on someones gun during a Norco match at the waiting bench. no jig, just one stone and some hand filing.

now I dont know how it came out but thats what I recall.

[diehli]

Cullen, do I rightly recall that you had MV do a trigger for you back in the day? I think he follows the school of BE and TGO. ??

MV does. i remember someone telling an account of MV doing a Tjob on someones gun during a Norco match at the waiting bench. no jig, just one stone and some hand filing.

now I dont know how it came out but thats what I recall.

Sounds like you two read the link I posted in post #7.

Yep, Voigt did a trigger job for me on the Open gun I owned way back when. I really liked how it broke (I had tried it on another gun he'd done). All he had was his Ed Brown jig, a stone or two, a blue Sharpie, some moly-based grease, and a place to sit.

Didn't notice it at closer range, but when making longer shots and focusing on the trigger pull, it was nice that it would just go bang all of a sudden. Dialed in a bit more overtravel to help with follow through and it was perfect. I'm no bullseye shooter, but it works for me.

Actually, the best trigger I ever had on a gun was the 2.25-lb Vanek on my old Glock 34. Smooth, no stacking, consistent pull and it would just go bang when it reached the release point in its travel. Best trigger I ever felt was the single action pull on a Ruger revo.

Point of looking for the sears is I'm ready to do 'em on my own now.

*pulls out Dremel tool and bottle of Flitz*

[Flexmoney]

Cullen, do I rightly recall that you had MV do a trigger for you back in the day? I think he follows the school of BE and TGO. ??

Sounds like you two read the link I posted in post #7.

Nope. Not lately, anyway.

[diehli]

*tongue in cheek*

[nheiny13]

MV does. i remember someone telling an account of MV doing a Tjob on someones gun during a Norco match at the waiting bench. no jig, just one stone and some hand filing. now I dont know how it came out but thats what I recall.

I finally get to say "Hell, I was there." Yes that is a true story. It was at a match at gopher flats. He uses/used an Ed Brown jig, or similar jig that he modified to get it to how he wants the sear cut. His trigger jobs are a thing of beauty

[diehli]

Got in touch with Chuck at Warner Pistols. This is what he had to say:

My jig will cut the sear with a radius and no secondary. This is perfect for a roll trigger. The directions cover both a roll trigger and a "snap" trigger job. I recommend the EGW, and STI sears if you are going to cut your own.

STI sears are EDM'd tool steel and lightened like the Extreme/C&S ones (just not highly polished like they are)... hrm....

And look at that:

[diehli]

Designed expressly for the military to be used in their match 1911 pistols. This sear has no relief angle to help create a roll off trigger pull. Suitable for all 1911 pistols. Heat treated 50-54 RC.

Price: $49.50

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=CS0177

Edited May 10, 2012 by diehli

[DWFAN]

EE's are much cheaper. I used the TR jig on a EE kit, and WOW. Best trigger I've felt. Not sure if it's the roll you're looking for, but excellent either way.

Shooters Connection has the EE sears and kits, and at good prices if you have the Enos member discount.

[diehli]

EEs are $12.50 cheaper than the C&Ss, it looks like.

But STIs are half the price of the EE. Perhaps more finish work is needed, but is it that much more?

Methinks it's worth checking out. I'll probably fiddle with the EE I have here, a new EGW, and an STI just to see if there's any major differences.

Excuse me while I go reinvent the wheel.

[mark carr]

I have been useing the TR sear jig with good results I think this is the sear your looking for its a berryhill ulmate long sear I will try to paste http://www.berryhillguns.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=62

[pjb45]

Best trigger jobs are by Don Golembieski at Kodiak Precision.

I only use SV stuff in my guns. Don does real magic on my triggers.

[Pat Miles]

Best trigger jobs are by Don Golembieski at Kodiak Precision.

I only use SV stuff in my guns. Don does real magic on my triggers.

+1!

I've felt the trigger on Paul's Open gun and his Limited gun. Both are unlike any other I've had a chance to check out and I've checked out a lot of the big name builders guns. After 5 minutes playing with a Golembieski trigger I need to find a dark place and have a cigarette. And that folks is no $hit! I would give my left nut to watch Don do a trigger job.

Pat

Edited May 15, 2012 by Pat Miles