2" Groups at 50 yards...

[lee blackman]

How much goes into a 1911 to get 2" groups at 50 yard, or even close?

Is that something limited to the high end several thousand dollar Les Baer and Wilson type handguns? Is it something that requires a thousand dollars in gunsmithing work on top of an existing gun? Or with modern CNC precision machining, is that something that can be found in a $1200 production line 1911?

[okshootist]

It takes a good barrel, fit by someone who knows what they are doing, and excellent ammo. Slide to frame fit is also a lesser factor. Don't expect that type of performance from a production gun. If you require that type of accuracy, you'd be better off with a custom build rather than modifying an existing gun. It's easier to build the gun right the first time than improve on existing work.

[a matt]

Well put, but if you have the gun that you want groups in 2" range with. We have a lot of excellent gunsmith found here. Call a couple and talk to them.

[latech15]

Someone til me a story about Doug Koenig selecting barrels for bianchi cup guns. Story goes that he has a jig that he can hold the barrel in and fire rounds through. If the barrel won't hold one hole at 25 by itself he throws it back in the box and gets another one.

There are a few sports that require that kind of accuracy and a few smiths that are capable of building guns that can dominate those sports. Most are sponsors here.

Good luck.

[Wild Gene]

I have one, except it is 1" at 50 yards. It was built by Derek J., Millennium Custom. It is a 9mm, with a Scheumann Barrel. It was set up as an Open Bianchi gun at the time, using Atlanta Arms Ammo. It is now set up as an Open steel gun and is still more accurate than I can shoot it.

wg

[Sandro]

A tight fit gun will do that, if the barrel is fit right, your trigger is good, and your ammo is well made. Meaning good, bullets, etc.

[kimberacp]

but is the shooter capable?

[pjb45]

Many many shooters are capable of it.

there was a story about Dave Dawson shooting the bottom of a coke can at 95 yards.

I have seen Taran hit LaRues at 100 yards, consistently like 9 out of 10 times. And that was with a gun sighted in a 15 yards.

My stock STI 45ACP Trojan routinely shot 1.25 inches at 25 yards off a sandbag. Not bad for a $900 gun.

Granted that is not 2 at 50 but pretty darn close.

[kimberacp]

I meant, standing "freestyle"...and 'yes", your right many shooters can but was just referring that many can not even shoot a group "freestyle" @ 25 yds.

Edited May 4, 2012 by kimberacp

[AznDragon533]

doubt anyone can ever be that good.........except bob munden

[DougCarden]

Your gun needs to be set up so the barrel locks up the same everytime, like a bank vault. It helps if you have a twist rate that stabilizes the bullet properly for the velocity you are shooting for whatever game you shoot.

Then you need the right bullet weight for the twist, with a propellant that allows the bullet to reach the velocity in the sweet spot.

I can tell you in the 9mm caliber some of the best powders are the medium burning powders, like VV330, 320, W 231, and Tightgroup. You want everything to be the same as well....brass, same headstamp. New brass is best, or roll sized for once fired.

Hollowpoints are more accurate due to the stabilizing better.

Then it boils down to subconscious shooting with your trigger control. What I mean by that is when the sights are aligned letting the shot break instead of "doing it now", which leads to yanking or jerking the trigger. Shooting groups at 50 yds is a humbling experience, and you have to do everything right. Being easy on the trigger is the hardest part.

DougC

[redryder50]

doubt anyone can ever be that good.........except bob munden

Heheheh good one. Just ask him. lol

[JakeMartens]

I got one that will do it

it is a 70 series Colt (1972 production)

AMU gunsmith Jack Best built it for my uncle to NRA bullseye competition

it will shoot 2inch or less at 50yards with military hardball

the slide was preened to the frame for fit

the barrel was welded up and refit and it takes both hands to turn the barrel bushing to get it loose to take it down.

He also air chiseled the front strap, it would draw blood it was so sharp

had bo-mar adjustable fitted to the original rear sight dovetail and a extra tall front sight

the trigger was a solid metal trigger at about 4pounds

I had the gun updated a little, had the rear sight set up as a low mount, updated the trigger parts with cylinder and slide, added a ed brown beavertail and single sided safety, smith and alexander magwell, and the front sight dovetailed in.

My Nolwin .45acp single stack will do it aall day long. It is 10 years old countless amount of round thru it and still locks up tight, no play, no movement in slide to frame

[latech15]

My Bedell open gun will do it on bags. What's the point though? That gun gets mad at me when I go slow and try to shoot groups. We have a "Christine" type relationship. She gets jealous when I shoot other guns or neglect her for too long.

I certainly can't do it freestyle. I can keep them in a b27 x ring at 25 but that is all I have tried to do other than on bags.

[GlockandRoll]

i've owned several Clark custom 1911's that were 2" guns, 10 shot groups verified. Some of the "other" 1911 tuners work on tight machine tolerances, but really.. as long as the lugs, hood, and bushing/bbl fit is tight, then you should be good to go.

What I like most about the clarks is they RUN, and the accuracy job on just about ANYTHING you send them is only $400 and change.

[itchy]

To really test the grouping ability of a gun, it should be done on some kind of fixed rest, such as a Ransom Rest. I have friends that will disregard the first shot off the rest because the gun was hand cycled. I'm sure if we rested guns more often we'd be surprised at how well assembly line guns actually do group.

Seiichi

edit

Also, you generally end up exchanging accuracy for reliability. The "loose" guns are more reliable, but generally don't have exceptional accuracy. The guns that lock up tighter may be more accurate due to the consistency of the lock up, but are generally more finicky. Kind of like comparing an AK to an AR platform gun.

Edited May 8, 2012 by itchy

[Aircrewman USN]

Akai Custom!!!!

[GlockandRoll]

Ransom rests are great if you have a tight slide-to-frame fit, and that's really only for single stacks.

Glock's are very accurate, but you cant put them in a rest because they don't rely on a tight slide-to-frame fit. I've got a 9mm P-18 limited Para that shoots magnificently, but becuase it's stainless I could not tighten the slide to frame fit. Careful attention however was used when turning down the BBL, fitting the bushing, and fitting the lugs of the BBL and link pin, etc. It all locks up positively, but still cycles. Off a small rest, I can shoot quality 9mm in a ragged hole at 15 yards, around an inch or so at 25.

[pjb45]

Bill Laughridge at Cylinder and Slide does a nice YouTube piece on the 1911.

One point he makes is Bullseye Shooting is slow fire of a few rounds. They were able to really fit those barrels and bushing. But when USPSA came along, all those wonderfully tight bushings expanded when heated up and locked up the gun.

A lot has changed since then but a Bullseye gun may not be the best choice for USPSA shooting. To me, it is kind of like watching paint dry as opposed to using an airless sprayer.

Although I have seen 40 yard standards at National matches and WSSSC, it seems pretty rare these days. It is kind of cool, to see the older GMs shoot 40 yard standards. Those guys really know how to put the rounds in the A zones at 40 and 50 yards. Distance accuracy is not an issue with those guys.