Why go to S_I?

[Steve Moneypenny]

Ok, i don't mean to sound snobbish. i am honestly looking for your input and experience. I have shot production since it was invented. I am now moving ot limited and i am shooting a P16.40 para ordnance. i'd say i have about 1000 in my rig. I see everyone moving to S_I products in droves. my question is why, they hold fewer rounds. most guns are "built" anyway so why not go for more rounds?

does the 2 ish round difference not matter in most stages?

i am contemplating having a STI limted gun built but i want to know if it's actually worth paying the price and what does one that "runs" run... ones that don't work don't interest me :-)

thanks

Steve

[ninemmbill]

I too am wanting to know how much better a S_I is than say a Para 16-40? I have been shooting a Glock in limited, but I feel the need to go 1911 to stay competitive.

[uscbigdawg]

my question is why, they hold fewer rounds. most guns are "built" anyway so why not go for more rounds?

Hi Steve,

My STI, holds 20+1, all the time, so don't quite know what you mean there. STI and SVI sponsor our sport HEAVILY and frankly produce a significantly better product, IMHO, than Para Ordnance. I had mine built by Bob Londrigan at Brazos Custom (another huge match sponsor) and has run flawlessly from day 1.

A Para is a good, affordable, platform, and allows folks to shoot Limited and be competitive (after all, that Todd guy does pretty well ).

Rich

[Loves2Shoot]

TJ uses a Para, but the main things I've heard are durability of the frame and quailty of the parts. Personally, I don't like the Para mags, but they are plenty good enough if you like the fit and feel, and you get one that was made right.

[roby]

i made this same decision 3 months ago. the para is great, you' ll probably dump another 400-500 on just the gun though. finessing everything, polishing, trigger work, whatever. so now your at about 1000 dollars on the gun alone. the para has a larger grip (to me atleast) and is heavier. mags are a little more scarce than an s_i....or so it seems. you can find s_i mags anywhere. i also believe upon my evaluation that their are more aftermarket options for s_i guns. so at about a 1000 for just the para gun, why not spend a little more and get the best(figurative). for me it basically came down to : feel of gun, selection of parts, shootability, aftermarket, and pimp status. to turn the p16 into the gun i wanted would cost more than a factory sti. i chose every part on my sti, and it got built in a week and a half by my gunsmith. i think that buying the sti is worth it to me, if i got a para, id still be lusting for an s_i

[Wakal]

I built my first Para back when they didn't even MAKE complete guns. I have three, BTW, so please don't think that I don't like 'em.

The only reason I bothered to change is because I won a STI 6" F3 ("Fat Free Forty") built by Benny Hill. I thought "ach, me favorite Para be just as good..." (it was 'talk like a Pirate' day ).

But...I was wrong.

Switching from a Caspian slide/Bar-Sto/Bomar/fiber/wide safety/beavertail/huge mag well/cocobolo grips (mmm...wood grips...) Para to a plastic (shudder) grip hacked-up STI...was good for an instant ten (10) percent on my classifiers.

Whoa doggies.

I thought it was just me...or just the F3...but our Trusty Stats Guy won a STI last year (one of Bulletwork's 5" guns) and HIS scores went up ten percent. I don't think that is just because he is the stats guy, either

On a budget...I think it is quite impossible to beat a Dawson "Todd Special" P16. Otherwise...just by the S_I and be happy

Alex

[ong45]

My first real ipsc gun was a P14 (which i still have btw). It was cool for a while, then i had the trigger group replaced. Was happy for a while longer then sprung for a welded on magwell (150$ job).To make a long story short, after a new barrel, sights etc. i could have gotten an sti for about the same money.

If you are anything like me and won't be happy until you have the best, skip the para.

James

[Steve Moneypenny]

WOW a week and a half... you must have SOME gun smith!!!

thanks for the replies keep 'em coming.

i alerady have a para. trigger job, slide lightened and fiber optic front sight. i'm thinking of upgrading. so the " for couple hundred more" isn't an issue.

Steve

[Chuck D]

STI and SV are popular products because they offer:

1. Parts made from superior materials that are "gunsmith ready".

2. Complete guns that are "race ready"

3. Products that are the cutting edge of research and development.

Para make a good pistol but they are only an "off the shelf" pistol that needs gunsmithing and parts replacement to render them "match ready". STI and SV's don't necessarily need that extra attention.

[Garrett]

mags are a little more scarce than an s_i....or so it seems. you can find s_i mags anywhere.

Where are you looking? I haven't been actively looking for a couple of years, but I never had a problem finding Para mags. They usually cost half of what S_I mags do. You can still get Para .45 mags from the factory for $65.

I recently bought an STI/Para tube to replace a factory Para tube. By the time I was done, I was over $100 for the replacement mag.

[dajarrel]

In my limited experience, you can see the difference btwn the guns after about the first 10,000 rounds. I have seen Para's that are excellent guns but from what I have seen they just don't hold up to hard competition round counts. After 10k rounds or so, a S_I gun is just getting broken in. After 20,000... it's rockin'!!!!

This is just my personal observation. YMMV.

FWIW

dj

[.40AET]

I had 2 Para's and dumped a ton of money into them to try to get one to where I wanted it. I sold them both and bought an SVI. I have never been happier. If I had sent my para to Dawson to have a full-race job done on it, I would likely still sell it and buy an S*I.

They usually cost half of what S_I mags do. You can still get Para .45 mags from the factory for $65.

Para Refurb= Para=$40/tube, $16/spring & follower, $35/basepad= $91

SVI Refurb=$49/tube, $15/spring & follower, $29/basepad=$93

If you want to shoot L-10 then Para mags will be cheaper, if you want to shoot in Limited, then SVI mags are 2 bucks more and 10 times the mag that a Para can every hope to be.

My Par's ran fine, but the magazines are the Achile's heel of the gun.

[.40AET]

I recently bought an STI/Para tube to replace a factory Para tube. By the time I was done, I was over $100 for the replacement mag.

By the time you were done, you built a new mag that cost over a $100, not just a new tube.

[roby]

WOW a week and a half... you must have SOME gun smith!!!

yep , the best. eddie jimenea.

[Chriss Grube]

The other advantage is STI's contingency money. Paras will do the job. I won a bunch of times with mine. When I built my new open guna couple years ago I talked it over with George from EGW. His experience was that the STI's were better QC and easier to work with. Since I wanted the same grip style I switched the limited gun over to an STI also. Still have the Para in the safe and have no doubt I could pull it out and still be competitve but it took a few hundred bucks extra to get it there.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

I started off 2 years ago shooting L10 with a Dawson P14 and have since upgraded to an SV .40 full length DC. Honestly, there is NO comparison. Since I'm shooting my SV exclusively now, I wish more people would shoot Paras!

[JohnMc]

I've been shooting IPSC for almost 3 years now. I've been shooting a STI Eagle for most of that time. I've seen every shooter at our club, that had a Para , struggle with their pistols. They are just not built to play our game out of the box. Spend the extra bucks and buy an S-I. It's no fun playing with a gun that doesn't run.

[kimel]

I have a Dawson'ed P-16 and love it. I have around 20K through it and it still is as accurate as the day it came out of the box and just as tight (although a lot of this probably has to do with a steady diet of Slide Glide since round #1 was fired through it by me). About 1/3 of those have been steel loads but the rest were >165PF IPSC loads. Dave really tweaks those Paras out and makes them sit up and talk. They are an excellent entry level Limited/L10 gun.

But my next gun will be an S_I. I'll keep the Para as a backup gun and/or tweak it out as a Steel gun.

Why change? I like the feel and handling of the S_I guns better. I also "know" that my Para has a limited lifespan and I need a backup gun.

I have had zero problem finding mags but for all the Para mags I dumped the internals and replaced them. I recently bought some used STI/Para mags with all Grams guts and those babys rock.

[3quartertime]

Hey Steve, ( We briefly met at the Tri-State once )

My opinion is tainted by the fact that;

I shoot a P16-40 in limited (for now), and I truely believe that once you get it running right there is no difference.

and,,,

I have seen a local master ( almost 60 yrs old and still kicks butt locally ) shoot both and he rocks with either. ( Back to a tuned Para and won the last local overall handily)

I don't think there is enough of a difference to pay the extra cash. My guess is, at your level, you have a para that runs correctly or you wouldn't be shooting it.

I've played with the S-I's and feel that if I wanted a higher quality blaster I would want a steel body gun. Maybe you are the same. I think I would build on a Caspian double frame. All steel and maybe a little more durable. BUT,,, I've seen and own Para's that have ten's of thousands of competition rounds. I don't think the fatigue is a problem. All guns wear. Maybe I've been blessed with good products of a bad manufacturer, or maybe I just don't need to have a pretty blaster to get that feel...

I would love to shoot like TJ, but I know I don't have the devotion to make it happen.

In the end I seriously,,,seriously doubt that a well tuned Para is holding you back from reaching the level you want to get to...

S-I's are really smooth and nice feeling, but I don't think that is the ingredient for success.

Our friend Steve A says, " Pick one and practice " I think that he would agree that if you Para is working for you equipment wise then a pretty new blaster won't make the difference you are looking for.

Your skill level is far superior than mine so my opinion is just that... mine.

[Steve Moneypenny]

3/4 time if i remember you were the guy with Bill Seevers right?

I've shot the para some before i've never really "shot" an S_I i've handled one and it felt nice but not had the chance to play with one.

right now my only problem with the para is i had 2 failures to extract last match!!! those are reallly time consuming luckily it was just a club level IDPA match.

[Kingman]

As far as speed goes. I started with an original Para high cap aluminum frame. Then bought a caspian and a McCorminck(STI) frame. The fastest I ever went was with the caspian high cap.

Now using STI's and really like them. I just feel the slight difference in grip shape gives me a little bit more room in gun handling.

[Cameron]

STI has a contengency payout program, Para does not. Reason enough to me!

[Dead Buff]

I shoot a P16-40 (older model) and have done very little tweaking on it - yes some parts replacment but everything total between 100-200 USD.

I have played around with a STI and have found it getting used to.

IMHO it boils down to peresonal pref. Top guys win with Tanf., BulM5, Para, S_I, and what else.

I don't like the top-heavy feel of plastic guns when they run low on ammo and my Para runs 100% and is more accurate than I am.

Pick what you like, then check with the bank mang (some call them wife... ) and get it....

[Steve Moneypenny]

I do like the "feel" of the steel frame. but i also like very light guns as long as there is not a lot of reciprocating mass.

I know i'm a B class shooter... but pending some classifiers i won't stay there long so i'm not sure how much help the contingency thing will be. competing with big dogs winning big may be a bit of a chore for a while.

thanks for the replies.

Steve

[EricW]

I don't think the real difference is between S_I / Para / Caspian / Other.... but is the difference between a true, top-quality custom, hard-fit gun and an off-the-shelf factory gun.

The difference is just incomparable. Once you shoot a top-end gun for a while, there's just no going back to second best. There's just a certain je ne sais quoi about walking to the line with top equipment.