Moving up to Master

[lugnut]

When I shot that 81 second classifier I wasn't trying I was just shooting. You need to shoot it relaxed, calm, and smooth. Follow that front sight on the shots you need it and let the times fall where they will.

I know it's "just" a classifier, but doing something bad like dropping a single head shot in the very first string means all of the above was a big waste of time, money, and effort.

Ahh dude... got to stop that kind of negative thinking! Mike's always suck but that attitude is going to kill you. I've made Master classifiers with a miss. Don't ever think it's over till it's over....

[Strick]

Very true. The first division I made MA in was CDP by shooting the classifier. If I remember right I had 2 misses, one in stage 1 and one in stage 3. The rest of it was pretty good though.

[steel1212]

The most important shot is the one your currently making. If you mike a shot make it a training tool to help you get tough....mentally. Continue on like nothing happened. If you dwell on something bad that happened you won't learn from it. Learn from everything good or bad.

[Glock3422]

Practicing the classifier is the road to frustration.

Go shoot matches and enjoy getting better at the sport.

Become a classifier master and suffer eternal hell.

[lugnut]

Practicing the classifier is the road to frustration.

Go shoot matches and enjoy getting better at the sport.

Become a classifier master and suffer eternal hell.

I wouldn't condone practicing the classifier as your sole source of practice- that would be silly. However I've said it countless times- you won't get a better 90 round practice in elsewhere. I personally don't find it frustrating. I don't need to classify any more but I welcome the opportunity to shoot it when I can.

Sure- there are people that classify at Master and can't compete at matches. That's doesn't bother me one bit... there is no substitution for getting good match experience AND other good practice- movers, swingers, lateral movement, ports, etc, etc.

Here's my perspective of the classifier. Sure you can practice it and make Master... and you may not be able to compete at a high level with other Masters- but you certainly have developed a core set of skills that are important. If you get a match bump- and I have had several so I'm not biased one way or the other, that only says- I beat most (or all) the people that showed up at that particular match. Never mind the variability of the skills of the people that showed up...and some matches test different skills. Some are more technically challenging, some are all up close and personal targets. So which way to Master is more "accurate"? I don't know. It would be impossible to require both (bump AND classification) because as mentioned- some divisions just don't have enough shooters... never mind requiring lots of potential travel for some people.

Regardless- you should always go out to have some fun. How much you want to improve is up to each individual.

[MrBorland]

I agree with others who suggest your classification follows match performance. Whether you get master by shooting a classifier or by a match bump, it matters not, IMO. Focus on shooting matches well, and your classification will take care of itself.

Sadly, I'm a revolver shooter at heart and would probably prefer to shoot only revolver because I enjoy it more. However there is often so little competition in SSR / ESR that it's not worth it, IMO.

IMO, revo shooters set their bar too low when they 1) only look to each other as their competition, and 2) when they give themselves permission to be slower than semi-autos simply because of their gun. It's a very self-limiting combination.

JohnZ touched on it - if you want to be a better revolver shooter, look to hang with your class in SSR, ESP and CDP. At the local level, there's no reason you can't place right up there among all the other experts. And at the master level, an overall win - even against semi-auto masters - isn't out of the question.

Tom

[jar]

I'm in a similar situation to the OP, shot an SSP classifier in 112.26 recently.

Stage 1: 25 seconds or less - total 35.63

String 1-3 - 2 seconds 2.53 2.69 3.4(I missed a head on the 2nd one, and took to long on the 3rd)

4 - 4 seconds 7.31 (a-skeered of missing)

5 - 3 seconds 3.51

6 - 6 seconds 6.43

7 - 4.5 seconds 5.26

Total 23.5 seconds and leaves a little room for points but no misses

Raw time toal was 31.13, one missed head, plus 4 other points

Stage 2: 25 seconds or less 26.35 total

1 - 4 sec 4.47

2 - 4 sec 4.40

3 - 7.5 sec 9.30

4 - 5 sec 5.68

Total of 20.5 and leaves a little room for points - total raw of 23.85, down 5

Stage 3: 40 seconds or less 50.28 total

1 - 13 14.99

2 - 15 16.61

3 - 5 6.18

Total of 33 seconds with plenty of room for points as long as you can still hit mostly -0 & -1's

37 sec raw, down 25 points, mostly on the middle and left target

I've been working reloads and movement a lot in practice lately. That's helped a ton in matches, but not so much on the classifier. I need to work on draw speed and consistency for a bit now. I think if I build confidence in my draw in practice, it'll help me relax, which should improve the times a bit. The other thing I need to work on is accuracy when shooting from cover. The fact that I was down only 3 or 4 on the right target while being down 10+ on the middle and left suggests that the lean is what's throwing me off. If I pick up the headshot on stage 1, shave a few tenths of each draw, and clean up the points on stage 3, I'm there.

[steel1212]

Most people drop the most points on stage 3. Stages 1 and 2 should be clean or close to it in my opinion. Don't aim center brown on stage 3 aim high center brown, I'm a uspsa shooter and I have to remember that

[Kali]

shooting a classifier usually involves loading up ammo, packing up the gear, driving maybe an hour, paying $15, spending a fair amount of time waiting for your turn, and then getting one chance to perform your best while shooting cold. I know it's "just" a classifier, but doing something bad like dropping a single head shot in the very first string means all of the above was a big waste of time, money, and effort. Because of that, I tend to take an extra quarter or half a second to make sure my sights are lined up.

Sounds like a good recipe for shooting tight. The first part of shooting a Master time in the classifier is allowing yourself to shoot free with no fear. We rarely shoot well when we "make sure". "Making sure" is a conscious override telling yourself what to do instead of just doing it intuitively. On top of that you have additional baggage. You may feel like you invested time, money and effort and might "expect" a return on investment. its no different from shooting a major match. You put all this time in practicing, paid a big entry fee, took off from work and drove out of state to get there...you better come home with something! I couldn't shoot with that much self-imposed pressure before the match even started! Finally, making sure NOT to do something is almost a guaranteed way to make what you don't want to happen come true. A Master doesn't make sure to not miss, he makes sure to get the hits so missing isn't even an issue.

It can be argued that a majority of Expert level shooters have the physical skill to shoot a Master time, what's holding them back is the mental approach. Instead of striving to make a Master time, strive to perform like a Master and all that it encompasses. if you are able to do that, the time you want will come without trying.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Kali

[Ted Murphy]

I shot my first SSP MA classifier Sunday. I was not trying to do it at all. I just went to make an honest attempt to shoot my 90 rounds into the dirt, and had a good run.

You have to get the hits, especially on three. I dropped 10 or 11 total on three FWIW.

I am pleased with the accomplishment but not completely thrilled I have to try and run with the big dogs.

I would not make any classification a goal. I would make competency, accuracy, and trying to shoot your potential the goal.

Ted

[lugnut]

I would not make any classification a goal. I would make competency, accuracy, and trying to shoot your potential the goal.

First- congrats!

On not making a classification a goal vs trying to shoot your potential.... a classification is a measurable GOAL that will help tell if you are getting better at competency, accuracy, etc. GOALS that are measurable and aren't' dependent of others' performances are good IMO.

Many top instructors will indeed tell you to measure times for your drills to measure improvements, etc.

[Jane]

I shot my first SSP MA classifier Sunday. I was not trying to do it at all. I just went to make an honest attempt to shoot my 90 rounds into the dirt, and had a good run.

Ted

Congratulations, Ted!

[Steve Koski]

Congrats Ted!

[astephenson]

I don't worry too much about classifier times. A match bump is a much more satisfying way of making Master.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I shot my first SSP MA classifier Sunday. I was not trying to do it at all. I just went to make an honest attempt to shoot my 90 rounds into the dirt, and had a good run.

Ted

Ted, congratulations.

Bill

[steel1212]

I don't worry too much about classifier times. A match bump is a much more satisfying way of making Master.

That is if you shoot major IDPA matches. I've shot one since I've been shooting and that was like 6 years ago. I only get to go to so many matches and most of them are USPSA so I had to make it on the classifier.

[jmorris]

Practicing the classifier

I don't get to practice match stages and the way I look at it is, the only thing worse than being a sandbagger is being a grandbagger.

[TacticalReload]

Practicing the classifier

I don't get to practice match stages and the way I look at it is, the only thing worse than being a sandbagger is being a grandbagger.

I personally feel that sandbagging is much worse than grandbagging since the latter is cheating yourself while the former is cheating everyone else.

I can understand where you're coming from, however, IMO... "practicing" the classifier really is only practicing skills that will help universally with shooting ability. The strings of fire in stages 1 and 2 of the classifier are nothing more than simple drills that everyone should practice. Stage 3 is much more specific, but working on shooting around cover and at longer distances are also skills that should be practiced as well.

I don't disagree that practicing the classifier will make you good at shooting the classifier. But I don't think it makes you good ONLY at shooting the classifier.

[blu46and2]

Practicing the classifier

I don't get to practice match stages and the way I look at it is, the only thing worse than being a sandbagger is being a grandbagger.

+1

[kaiserb]

I'm not sure what my draw time is but string 1-3 on stage one is in the ballpark of 2.5-2.8. So I'm figuring my draw is too slow. I guess I'll have to get faster at that.

Looking at my records my SSP MA classifier String 1, 2, 3 on Stage 1 were all under 2.5 seconds total time adjusted. You should be able to draw and Moz a target from 7 yds in 1.90-2.50 total time.

[steel1212]

I'm not sure what my draw time is but string 1-3 on stage one is in the ballpark of 2.5-2.8. So I'm figuring my draw is too slow. I guess I'll have to get faster at that.

Looking at my records my SSP MA classifier String 1, 2, 3 on Stage 1 were all under 2.5 seconds total time adjusted. You should be able to draw and Moz a target from 7 yds in 1.90-2.50 total time.

I think I was doing 1.8s

[jmorris]

"practicing" the classifier really is only practicing skills that will help universally with shooting ability.

Any shooting should help you ability. Back in '04 there was a fellow at one of the clubs I shot at who was an EX. The only practice he did was shooting the classifier and he finally made it to EX. I think he made it a year or so longer before he gave up the game.

Having your ass handed to you every match by shooters in the class below you is no fun. You can be a 5 gun master on paper but nobody cares unless your match performance can back it up. With the exception of national standards "classifier" stages in matches (sanctioned or club) are almost nonexistant, at most one stage in a match.

[chuck s]

I am conflicted on the clasifier. I started shooting last March and classified as a Marksman. I improved steadily and generally scored at the low expert, high sharpshooter level at local matches by the end of the summer. I finished third in Marksman in the state match in June and third in Marksman at the recent Ironman match in feb. Both times my points would have put me in the middle of the pack in sharpshooter. last week my clasifer score was 113, expert in SSP. I never live fire practiced the classifier but I did dry fire the course at home on several occasions. So now I am a paper expert with several major matches coming up. I will no doubt have my butt handed to me at that level. I feel that I shot the classifier in an honest fashion and was not trying to impress anyone with an artificialy high score, nor was I sandbagging. So now I have some goals to live up to. I do not lke to be embarrased, so this classification will make me work hard to earn it at the match level.

[jmorris]

So now I am a paper expert with several major matches coming up. I will no doubt have my butt handed to me at that level.

Chuck, that was my point but that's just the way it is unless you bump at matches.

[Sac Law Man]

A few things, you can shoot the classifier until your blue in the face and eventually get proficient at it and maybe score well enough to make Master in SSP, or revo since those MA scores are higher. If that is your goal, like others said, dump the three guns and get good with one first. I would stay from CDP, you are more than 20 seconds off master scores and thats a lot of time to make up. Work on your draws, reloads, transitions, accuracy, and shooting from behind the barricade.

Second, the classifier lacks one of the biggest challanges and hurdles when it comes to seperating DM and MA shooters and that is movement. Moving into and out of position and being ready to shoot is huge... Like Rob Leatham said, "Its not how fast you get there, its how fast you get there ready to shoot"!

If you have the skills and motivation there is nothing stopping you.. Good Luck