M.E.Anglin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Why is it that most matches ever one is so carefull about keeping the pistols holstered, but it ok to sweep everyone with rifles and shotguns?? Maybe if one goes off it will kill you less???? so many shooters forget the basic rules of guns when the long guns come out....... I said some thing about it and was told "its ok, they are unloaded" !!!!!!!! I sure the hell don't want to be setting targets or taping if I know some one is handling a gun in my direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'd bring it up to the Match Director and Range Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 When I give my "New" shooter safety breifing at 3Gun matches, I say the following: "In most cases, if you get shot with a pistol, you will survive. In most cases, if you get shot with a long gun, you will die." I get a lot of scared look, but it is the truth. I would encourage you to push it up the chain of command until you get a proper response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 vluc hit the nail on the head. If I was at a match and they said that... I would appear at the MD/RM's side and DEMAND a refund on my match fee for unsafe conduct or that they "solve the situation immediately." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 yes I agree with the chain of command, but I was the RO and the MD was in my squad, he told me "it was ok because the guns were unloaded" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 yes I agree with the chain of command, but I was the RO and the MD was in my squad, he told me "it was ok because the guns were unloaded" Rules 1: All guns are always loaded. 2: Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. 4: Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. Print them off and hand them out, maybe they've forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) yes I agree with the chain of command, but I was the RO and the MD was in my squad, he told me "it was ok because the guns were unloaded" I'd be looking at another club to shoot at.... But let me ask, was this a USPSA 3 gun or outlaw? If USPSA, get on the horn to your SC and get this addressed now as SAFETY is job one here. Your MD just doesn't get it. Edited March 12, 2012 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 local club. USPSA match....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 yes I agree with the chain of command, but I was the RO and the MD was in my squad, he told me "it was ok because the guns were unloaded" ...and that would be the last time I shot there. I would then contact the president of that club (if they were not present or were the RO/MD involved.) and then let their AC know what was going on if necessary. That is a *safety issue* that should not be tolerated to happen...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 the pez is the MD!!!!! which sucks cause it is a good match and it's the only 3 gun game in town... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 the pez is the MD!!!!! which sucks cause it is a good match and it's the only 3 gun game in town... Exactly the reason why there should be some level of accountability. Whether it be through a board, MD and RM or otherwise. I still say go to the SC, then AD if that does not work. Safety is no compromise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 agreed................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This sounds like a situation where what needs to occur and how to effect it require more thought. The what is pretty straight forward, unsafe gun handling. The challenge is how to convince the MD there is unsafe gun handling. Just telling the MD is not getting the results. 'Telling on the MD' might not be the most effective method. It might produce unintended results, e.g., no more 3Gun. Perhaps a series of one-on-one conversations with MD would be more productive. Maybe showing him the rules from SM3G or RM3G, etc. might serve as support to safer gun handling. The key is safety. Persistence is a virtue in this situation. In the next match, every time someone sweeps someone else tell them, Stop Sweeping People. Tell the MD unloaded does not matter, no sweeping, no breaking the 90 degrees, .... You can make your squad safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I totally agree with all of you, but...here's where part of the problem is. At our old range, they were all up in arms about moving with a gun, etc, but at the Trap area, I was getting swept every time I turned around...a LOT of the , um, old school, non-action shooters (especially of the shotgun only sports) think shotguns are not dangerous. So, if the MD is one of them, sometimes, taking it to the club will get you nowhere, as they are on the same page as he is! Some of the suggestions about reminding people of the NRA rules for all guns seems to be in order. But, if anyone at the club where you shoot, doesn't like action shooting, be careful about bringing it above the MD's head as you might lose the whole match! I KNOW it's really important, but maybe taking the MD out for a burger and discussing the way it might look to spectators, bad examples, etc... I'd just be careful before I was going over the match director's head unless you can't get anywhere with him, after trying at least a few more times BEFORE the next match! Just my $.02! And good luck! I hate getting swept with any gun, no matter how long or short! Some lady pointed a shotgun at me at Walmart and was upset when I pushed it to the side and told her not to point a gun at me! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If more than one of you see a problem, then contact your SC and AD, arrange a group meeting with them and the MD and hash it out. Nothing worse than seeing teh problem, doing nothing about it and having an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 all good advise, thank you, what is some real icing is the MD also does fire arms training...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 all good advise, thank you, what is some real icing is the MD also does fire arms training...... LOL! Can it get any worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 At our old range, they were all up in arms about moving with a gun, etc, but at the Trap area, I was getting swept every time I turned around...a LOT of the , um, old school, non-action shooters (especially of the shotgun only sports) think shotguns are not dangerous. There are actually little doodads that lace into shoes so shotgunners have a place to rest the muzzle of their trap or skeet gun Fortunately, I've never seen one of these at a USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I shot a steel challenge match last year where one of the competitors was also running a .22 rifle. He didn't have any problem sweeping people as long as the chamber flag was in. Since it was my first time at a match with long guns, I just assumed that was standard practice. I'm glad to hear that isn't acceptable behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Safety at the range is everyone's responsibility. Even yours. As long as any of us is willing to tolerate it, it will continue to happen. It usually only takes one person to speak up (in a respectfull and encouraging way) to get everyone to do it right. "You" and "anyone" else can make a difference. If the prez isn't running a tight enough ship, bring it up one on one. Not in an offensive sort of way, but in a proactive way. I'm challenging you because you are the one who noticed, you are the one who mentioned it, therefor you are the one who cares. Between kids and my work, I too have become kinda sensitive to not only safety violations, but things which have the potential to be safety violations. Such as trip hazards on a course of fire. Some times I say something, and sometimes I don't. Every time I say something to others, they are cool about it and the problem is corrected. Every time I don't, I later regret it and wish I had. As long as you're not a jerk about it, chances are the other guy won't be either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I had heard that sweeping, although very frowned upon, was acceptable if it had a chamber flag inserted. Anyone else ever hear that? Also technically, isn't every gun on a cart, sweeping your legs when they go by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 its not acceptable to me, If I was the RO, i would have issued the DQ, and if a MD, or anyone for that matter made the unloaded comment I would probably gone off on them. Asked him how stupid of a comment can u make. "Oh it's not loaded" is probably one of the stupidest comments someone in the shooting game can make. I dont really care what a MD, AD, SC club prez or anyone else has to say. You start pointing guns at me we are gonna have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmdCtzn Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Being swept with someone's muzzle is never a comfortable feeling, but I think there are levels of acceptance. If you sweep me during a course of fire with a loaded rifle, you are going home. If you sweep me with what should be an unloaded gun at the end of a course of fire and after the unload and show clear command, I'm going to give you a warning. If you sweep me while bagging your rifle unloaded and with a chamber flag in it that I can see, I won't even say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 If you sweep me with what should be an unloaded gun at the end of a course of fire and after the unload and show clear command, I'm going to give you a warning. If his gun handling is so poor that he sweeps you at all why would you assume its an unloaded gun? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I had heard that sweeping, although very frowned upon, was acceptable if it had a chamber flag inserted. Anyone else ever hear that? Also technically, isn't every gun on a cart, sweeping your legs when they go by? I consider a gun in a cart, secure holster, or in a case to not be considered sweaping because the gun is not being "handled". Once a gun is in someones hands then I consider it sweaping. The shotgun shooters are the same where I shoot (loacl clubs), chamber open/chamber closed sweaping everything in sight, and is why I don't shoot with them. I don't even park near them. David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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