I hate giving a DQ

[gunguru]

To do IPSC in Canada, (and by what I read here, it's not the case everywhere) we have to do a 2 day Black badge training, in this, we go through all basic aspect of safety and match shooting. Basic, but usefull. We also learn the basic of holster shooting. After the training, they give us a yellow card, and we have to participate to 2 match without DQ in order to receive our Black Badge.

By doing so, it's help us to be on the safe side. And it prevent things like making ready before the time.

As a Safety Officer (For Non IPSC shooting), I'm a bit freak about range safety, I saw too many horror story, fortunatly not turning bad, like a guy who decided to adjust his SKS front sight with his muzzle pointing to him, then pointing to us when we ask him to point his rifle downrange, so he turned back and started shooting!!! His rifle was loaded and safety off...

A SO friend of mine, at the rifle range, closed the line in order to let the shooter change teir target, while he are downrange, a new shooter came in, installed his rifle, and start shooting on the target he saw (freshly stapled by the shooter downrange), with returning people downrange!!! Hey scumbag, did you look downrange, the running little things, it's PEOPLE!!!

So no, safety is not an option. Newbies, Never never never take initiative on a shooting range, ask before doing something. We (all shooter and safety officer of all kind) prefer to answer a newb question than see a potential incident.

[Sarge]

Why do you assume that a brand new (to USPSA) shooter would pick up this kind of thing on the first stage? This is why I don't buy the "Don't come out and watch, Come on out and shoot with us it's fun" argument. Before I shot my first match I went to several and watched. I asked questions, I saw what gear and guns were used in the various divisions AND I had attempted to learn the rules the best I could. Have you forgotten the nerves and sensory overload you exprienced at your first match? Heck no, I still feel it right before the buzzer! Some things that we take for granted as "basic" or "obvious" are only basic or obvious because that's what we've been taught, and what we have seen reinforced over and over. Again, some basic investigation into the game would have helped. In order to ignore rules, one must first be made aware of them. I was totally unaware of the rule. And, that is your fault as well. Maybe you should step back a minute and take a deep breath before you assume that I ignored/disregarded instructions. I don't think anybody thinks you ignored any rules. However, I think you were ignorant of the rules. Meaning you were not familiar with them.

My first match had an uprange start. This, I had not read up on. When the RO said "make ready" I said, "I need to turn around to do this correct", He politely told me ,"yes, if you want to shoot the rest of the match" ! The point is I asked the question. Now I feel silly for asking it but in three short years as an RO I have been asked many "silly" questions. Almost every one of them kept the shooter from being DQ'd though.

Despite your mistake at the match a ton of blame still rests with the club or match staff. As others have pointed out all of our matches include New shooter orientation, pairing up with an experienced shooter, Assigning experienced RO's to the squad with the new shooters, and new guys never ever shoot first on a stage.

Learn from this and move on to the next match and ask questions when in doubt.

[Poppa Bear]

+ 1 Sarge.

We have had shooters with A and B classifications show up because they are in the area and we still do not let them shoot first unless they offer. ie they get pulled out of the pile as first shooter on the second or third stage and they say "I am fine with it" after we offer to move them down a few.

[Sparky]

I hate DQ'ing a shooter as well. I've been RO'ing since 1980. Got my

first RO card in 1984 (still got the card). I've only DQ'ed 3 shooters,

but two of them have been in the last month. The other one was about 10

years ago. RO'ing is a very important part of our sport and the rules

have to be followed.

[Maksim]

I hate DQ'ing a shooter as well. I've been RO'ing since 1980. Got my

first RO card in 1984 (still got the card). I've only DQ'ed 3 shooters,

but two of them have been in the last month. The other one was about 10

years ago. RO'ing is a very important part of our sport and the rules

have to be followed.

3 in almost 20 years?

How many matches do you work per year? How many warnings do you give out? That number awfully low.

[ntphd]

Although I can't say I agree with the tone of some replies here, there's no question about how important safety is for a USPSA match.

I'd like to give a big hand to all the great ROs out there who not only *keep* the matches safe, but even prevent problems *before* they happen.

In my first local match, I happened to double-plug. I was watching everything very closely, but I couldn't *hear* everything clearly. When it was my turn, I did what I saw the other shooters do: I got into position, waited until the RO took his position behind me, made sure no one else was downrange, and started to make ready. As my hand moved toward the gun, the RO yelled "STOP." I heard that. I hadn't yet touched my gun. The RO stopped the situation before it became a problem.

By my next match, I had learned not to touch my gun until the RO said "make ready." Unfortunately, this was the first time I ever shot a stage in which the shooter begins facing uprange. You guessed it . . . The RO said, "make ready," and I moved my hand toward my gun while still facing uprange. Actually, I was facing the RO. Again, before I could get my hand to my gun, the RO told me I needed to be facing downrange while I made ready. (I'm pretty sure he also addressed me as "dumbass." Realizing what a stupid mistake I almost made, I certainly wasn't going to argue.)

I didn't need to be DQed to learn those lessons. I've never done those things again. (Okay, I'm pretty sure I've been called "dumbass" a few times since then, but that's not the point.)

Had the ROs in those situations not been on top of things, had they not gone above and beyond, I certainly would have earned DQs in both instances. More important, I would have endangered the safety of others, and that's the last thing any of us wants to do. To all you ROs: thanks for doing what you do!

[Poppa Bear]

I think one of the worst things in DQ'ing the shooter is that it also messes up your night. I was about 5 shooters down from the guy I DQ'ed and it still effected my mental game as I stepped to the line. It was the next stage before I got the feeling of issuing the DQ behind me enough that it did not affect me.

Granted there are some people out there that could issue a DQ without it affecting them at all. I am not that cold blooded.

[lawboy]

To answer your question, Maxsim, no, there was no "new shooter orientation", and there was no run-down of any of USPSA's rules. There was no RO watching my gun, and no explanation of any standard protocols. Why do you assume that a brand new (to USPSA) shooter would pick up this kind of thing on the first stage? Have you forgotten the nerves and sensory overload you exprienced at your first match? Some things that we take for granted as "basic" or "obvious" are only basic or obvious because that's what we've been taught, and what we have seen reinforced over and over. And the driving 3 hours reference in my post was not meant as an excuse for "ignor[ing] the rules." In order to ignore rules, one must first be made aware of them. I was totally unaware of the rule. Maybe you should step back a minute and take a deep breath before you assume that I ignored/disregarded instructions.

You screwed up big time. Accept it. Your first mistake was not reading the rules before you showed up. I don't care who you are, if you knew enough to know USPSA exists, you knew there was a rulebook and you knew you should have read it. The whole "new shooter" thing drives me crazy. Why is it the that person who needs to read the rules more than anyone, feels his status as incompetent entitles him to a pass on his ignorance? Running around with loaded guns on gravel, loose dirt, grassy ground with holes, shredded tires, hard pack, etc. is dangerous stuff. That is why you sign an ultra hazardous activity liability waiver at every match you attend. The rules are designed to mitigate the inevitable risk of getting injured or killed down to something acceptable. READ THEM.

[Rotisiv]

When you take on the job of RO it is your duty to insure that all the rules are followed and if broken a dq was earned by the shooter and hopefully it will be the last.

[Maksim]

Although I can't say I agree with the tone of some replies here, there's no question about how important safety is for a USPSA match.

I'd like to give a big hand to all the great ROs out there who not only *keep* the matches safe, but even prevent problems *before* they happen.

In my first local match, I happened to double-plug. I was watching everything very closely, but I couldn't *hear* everything clearly. When it was my turn, I did what I saw the other shooters do: I got into position, waited until the RO took his position behind me, made sure no one else was downrange, and started to make ready. As my hand moved toward the gun, the RO yelled "STOP." I heard that. I hadn't yet touched my gun. The RO stopped the situation before it became a problem.

By my next match, I had learned not to touch my gun until the RO said "make ready." Unfortunately, this was the first time I ever shot a stage in which the shooter begins facing uprange. You guessed it . . . The RO said, "make ready," and I moved my hand toward my gun while still facing uprange. Actually, I was facing the RO. Again, before I could get my hand to my gun, the RO told me I needed to be facing downrange while I made ready. (I'm pretty sure he also addressed me as "dumbass." Realizing what a stupid mistake I almost made, I certainly wasn't going to argue.)

I didn't need to be DQed to learn those lessons. I've never done those things again. (Okay, I'm pretty sure I've been called "dumbass" a few times since then, but that's not the point.)

Had the ROs in those situations not been on top of things, had they not gone above and beyond, I certainly would have earned DQs in both instances. More important, I would have endangered the safety of others, and that's the last thing any of us wants to do. To all you ROs: thanks for doing what you do!

The RO stepped in and saved your butt before you were to get DQ'ed. You were lucky.

The RO's job is not to make sure you have a great match, score well, or not DQ yourself. It is a courtesy as a shooter. The RO's job is to ensure safety on the range.

Running and gunning is as dangerous if not more than driving drunk. It is your responsibility to know the rules. When you play the game, you accept the rulebook.

If you are a new shooter and people know about, yes you will get more attention, and maybe some leeway, such as RO stopping you before you DQ yourself, or yell "finger", however no one is owed that.

It just sickens me that at some places I have shot outside of my local area, and comments from other ROs from different parts of the country that rules somehow don't apply and people should be let go for breaking the 180, walking with finger in trigger guard, etc.

The very last local match, a friend of mine DQ'ed himself for putting one into the ground while changing stronghand to weakhand after reload. Stop, unload show clear, hammer down, holster. Call RM. No RO should feel bad about it. You did not make the shooter DQ themselves, nor should it ruin your day. Another friend of mine DQ'ed himself when the gun dropped during make ready trying to reholster.

[Cd662]

This thread seems to come up rather frequently in different iterations. I'd suggest for any new action pistol shooters to read the rules for their sport, ask questions and, if you did something wrong, understand what happened. I'd also say NOT to bother posting about it here because you are going to get the same response for nearly everyone which is generally "You messed up, you should 'man up' and don't endanger me, I don't want to be shot while downrange, I have SOed for one million years", etc etc.

[PKT1106]

Whenever I run new people (like first match new people), I would tell them they aren't winning any contests their first time out and we are going to go through this slow & deliberately. I would ask them what their plan is, go through what will happen and then get into the make ready. After the course of fire, I would tell them each step one at a time so they don't miss anything. If you are finished, unload.......show clear........slide forward.....hammer down. Doing it this way lets me make sure they are following directions, understand what needs to happen and things get done safely.

After a few stages of slow and steady, they get the hang of it and I start just saying the mandatory phrases. I still ask their plan for a couple more stages, especially if it something like El Presidente - where they have to turn around.

Before you can shoot at my old club, you had to be safety-checked, meaning a 1-2 hour training session with a seasoned shooter. It was actually good to do. They ran you though a lot of different movements and scenarios and then tested you on a set-up COF.

[Flexmoney]

I am going tho close this, as it has gotten personal, which is well beyond the idea here.

- Admin.