The birth of pistol craft?

[Aglifter]

Does anyone else think we are only at the very beginning of where shooting will go?

Leatham and Enos are ~ middle-aged men, and they created the modern technique.

The double-stack 1911, probably the best current platform, although one that could be improved, has been around only about 25 years.

I think air soft could result in quite a spread of technique, if we ever approach it properly - not as a toy, and not as a surrogate, but as a means of being able to practice techniques in an urban/sub-urban environment.

I suspect we will see the advent of a professional shooter having to be a professional athlete fairly soon.

Not really relevant to anything, but I thought it was an exciting idea - should be interesting to see how far it goes.

[ima45dv8]

Does anyone else think we are only at the very beginning of where shooting will go?

No.

[yoshidaex]

No

[Chuck Anderson]

Yep

[Jay870]

I don't think we'll see another wholesale re-thinking of technique like Brian & TGO ushered in...

... but I think minor technique tweaks, improved hardware, and improved training methods will push performance boudaries well beyond where they are now.

There is a very interesting section in "Talent is Overrated" where the author talks about how many of the world/olympic records in track and field at the turn of the 20th century are now merely solid times for modern high school athletes. I think competitive shooting will see similar improvements in baseline performance... or in other words, I suspect that what constitutes a GM level classifier performance today, will not be a GM level classifier performance in 50, or even 25 years.

[mpolans]

No. And I'd add that as important as TGO and Enos are to IPSC, they brought a much more evolutionary change to pistol shooting; Jeff Cooper with his thoughts of shooting pistols with two hands back when everyone else only used one brought about more of a revolutionary change.

As popular as the double stack 1911 (2011) is here, it's not perfect. It's main advantage is probably due to a very short trigger movement in a design that allows very light trigger pulls and universal familiarity leading to tons of suppliers. If the 1911 design did not have such a huge head start here in the U.S., I don't think it'd be as popular...for evidence of that, look to Europe; they have a lot more variety. When was the last time a 1911 design won Open Division at a World Shoot?

[Whoops!]

Yes, the equipment we use is sub par. There's no excuse for using the primitive systems we use today in "open" division guns except what I term as laziness.

[yoshidaex]

Yes, the equipment we use is sub par. There's no excuse for using the primitive systems we use today in "open" division guns except what I term as laziness.

Staying within the current USPSA/IPSC handgun open division rules, what's your definition of a "cutting edge" open gun?

[MarkCO]

First your question, No. Maybe in the middle, but certainly not at the beginning.

Second, Leatham and Enos continue to contribute to the advancement of pistolcraft, albeit in different ways. However I think to say that they "created" the modern technique is highly disparaging to many others that preceeded and were/are their contemporaries. Enos book was certainly influencial, and I just started to read it again last night, for the 4th time. They certainly deserve a large measure of credit for their contributions, and frankly being generally quality people as well (some should take note). Leatham for his staying power and Enos for his ability to trasfer the technique to the written word.

I would bet that most of the "pioneers" including Leatham and Enos will also say that .22rf and dry fire are beneficial training tools, that is nothing new. I've seen discussions that airsoft may actually be detrimental to the very top competitors, so that may or may not have any factual basis.

To think the top shooters are not athletes is erroneous. At least 10 years ago, there were discussions related to physical fittness and cross-training for competitive benefit. When you look at SC, it might be less of an impact, but total fitness impacts all aspects of a person. When you look at 3Gun/MG, in some types of matches, the winner will always be physically fit.

Where the significant change has occurred and is occuring is in the exposure at the early ages. Take Leatham, Enos, Wilson, Shaw, Cooper (and a bunch of others) and teach them at 6, 7, 8 and contemplate where they would be now. We have several top tier competitors who started at early ages, several who made GM before they were 18. The formative mental make-up of todays and tomorrows shooters will improve the ability to perform the techniques, not equipment. In this realm, you may be correct that Enos was the original innovator in this area.

[Chuck Anderson]

When you look at 3Gun/MG, in some types of matches, the winner will always be physically fit.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm so fat and lazy I get winded walking up a flight of stairs. And not even a real flight. I'm talking about the three steps to get into my house. And I've managed to do OK. All kidding aside, one word...Taran.

[Chuck Anderson]

So for the folks that said no. Let me ask you this. Do you think guys in the 1800's thought there were dozens of better different ways to shoot than what they were doing? How about the FBI in the 30's. Do you think they were teaching that retarded speed crouch saying, man I wish we could use two hands because we'd be so much better. As for gun technology. Look at where we've come in 100 years. Do you really think in a 100 more years we won't have something different? Some new technique? I'm not saying someone will come out with something in 2014 that will shake us to the foundations. But to think that after 150ish years of evolution that the progress of repeating firearms is over is kind of silly. TGO and Miculek don't sit around practicing the same stuff they did last week, year, decade. They work the fundamentals but they still try new things out. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I very seriously doubt that what we're doing today will resemble what my kid is doing in 30 years.

[MarkCO]

When you look at 3Gun/MG, in some types of matches, the winner will always be physically fit.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm so fat and lazy I get winded walking up a flight of stairs. And not even a real flight. I'm talking about the three steps to get into my house. And I've managed to do OK. All kidding aside, one word...Taran.

Just cause you cover the distance with the bullet instead of your feet...you don't count.

Has Taran won Blue Ridge or RM3G before?

[Chuck Anderson]

I think RM3G maybe, and I'm pretty sure he's won the Ironman several years ago.

[gunguru]

Evolution, It's for everything... only 25 - 30 years ago, most police department in US and Canada carried good 'ol 38 spl revolver, now, try to find one that still using a revolver...

So yes, those "master" contibuted (and continue to) to our evolution, but I seriously think someone will come with something new in the future...

Think as of... not so long ago, a 486X with 100mgz, 20MOram and 200MO HD was the top of the notch... Flat Screen TV meaned a TV with a Flat window, not flat as a window... cellular phone was big enough to be used as a counterweight in a pickup truck...

Everything change... some good, some not.

[SlowShooter]

Evolution, It's for everything... only 25 - 30 years ago, most police department in US and Canada carried good 'ol 38 spl revolver, now, try to find one that still using a revolver...

It's always a risk to predict what technology will look like in the future, but..... I wonder if Shooting techniques and competition will change dramatically when we move away from mechanical/chemical ignition (primers) and go to solid-state electronic ignition or perhaps some as-yet unknown technology

[gunguru]

Already done... and gone! Remeber Remington Etron-X

[Skydiver]

Already done... and gone! Remeber Remington Etron-X

Yes the technology has arrived, but we haven't seen the effect of the technology spreading yet.

Imagine, if you had an electronically fired round, would people have to decide whether they prefer the DA/SA vs a striker fire? Would people have to a preference between the more common hinged trigger, or the straight back sliding trigger?

Although the basics of aiming are still going to be there, triggers can be made such that you don't ever have to worry about about a 8 lbs trigger pull again. A pressure pad can be made to fire at the shooter's preferred pressure. Will slapping the trigger become a commonly taught technique over prepping and squeezing the trigger?

Additionally, with some of the concept pictures of the Metalstorm technologies I've seen, it seems like there is no reason that the pistol's barrel axis needs to be above the hand anymore. Will the current two handed thumbs forward grip we now use change to something else when recoil will be going straight back into palm and wrists?

In the end, I believe that the techniques may change and evolve, but the fundamentals will remain: target acquisition, aiming, firing, follow through. (I can see follow through going away if/when we get true laser pistols that deliver all their energy on the first pulse, otherwise follow through is still going to be needed for burn through.)

[MarkCO]

I can see follow through going away if/when we get true laser pistols that deliver all their energy on the first pulse, otherwise follow through is still going to be needed for burn through.

I would assert that an energy beam/laser that creates the damage/impact to the target is not a pistol at all. A pistol is defined as a hand held weapon having a chamber integral to the barrel launching a solid projectile due to combustion of a solid propellant.

[BlackBuzzard]

Its interesting to speculate what equipment would be out there and available to us IF say USPSA had always been as popular and well funded as say baseball?

If sv and sti annual sales were in the billion of dollars instead of what they are now? Just think of the R&D budgets they would have.

And I suspect Open division would have an optic far far more advanced and improved over the old cmore I put up with.

BB

[SlowShooter]

I can see follow through going away if/when we get true laser pistols

I would assert that an energy beam/laser that creates the damage/impact to the target is not a pistol at all.

Ahhh, I can see it in my mind, sometime in the future:

All those new Laser-Pistol shooters will look wearily at us old-fashioned Gunpowder shooters.... we'll all be building prop storefronts of a bygone era (eg Record stores, Gas stations, you know stuff that isn't around any anymore), while the laser-pistol shooters are setting up their movable ablative barricades and auto-scoring photoreceptive targest for their stage props.