Introducing PractiScore

[Mark K]

If you keep track of the 4-digit device numbers, you can search for the one of your choice that way as well during times when auto-lookup seems to be balking.

Bill,

We are using the device numbers when we have the problems described above. The i/OS version does a great job of keeping track of the child devices from the master, assuming they are connected to the network - Android version, either does not have a comparable function or it is just so bad that I have never seen it work.

My first thought was to blame the NST, as I have found that they tend to lose network connectivity if they go to sleep, but the same was true for the Kindle Fire, my Droid I phone, and the Android Phone that Jason was using.

I mean, it eventually works, it is just a P.I.T.A.

Mark K

[wgnoyes]

New update to the iOS version is available in the app store.

[Ken N.]

We have never been able to get Android devices to reliably find each other on the network, like the Apple devices do.

It's very frustrating.

I may have another engineer give it a fresh look when he is between his next projects. Not that Josh can't sort it out, he's a super smart guy, but sometimes a fresh set of eyes sees it different and sorts it out.

And as Bill said... the latest iOS update is in the App Store. This has time-plus support, and also changes category / class calculations to match what ezWinScore does (using overall combined points even for category / class calculations).

I'm traveling... as usual, so I'm slow to respond, but the team back at the office is keeping up with support / feature queries. So keep them coming.

Ken N.

[Mark K]

Two things we found today with the new i/OS version: 1) We have been using Time Plus on Android for Steel Challenge, and just entering 0.0 for the time on the longest of the 5 strings. You cannot do that on the new i/OS version. 2) On the sync page, when I try to update classification, the PS app just closes down.

Also about the sync problem that we encountered with the NST - frequently the NST look like it has a wifi connection, and displays the device number, but has really lost connection, w/o getting out of PS, just tap the top tool bar where the wifi icon it (even if it is not there), and the wifi quick menu will come up. Uncheck the wifi connection box to disable wifi, and then reenable it, when it shows the connection, close out of it, and you should be able to sync.

I walk around with my IPAD and the pocket router to the various squads throughout the match day, I walk up, borrow the squad NST, do the above, then sync, and give the NST back in about 30 seconds. Once we get our router antennas up at the range, the NST may not lose connectivity with the IPAD so easily, and this MAY not be necessary.

Mark K.

[wgnoyes]

Never tried T+, but I did try the classification update. Mine works.

[Mark K]

Devin at Practiscore support confirmed and fixed the classification update crash issue, and the 0.0 time issue in Time Plus on i/OS version and has submitted an update. Should be in the app store in about a week. Until then, just do the classification updates in EZWS when you import them back in. At present, we are only using androids for our Steel matches, so are OK with that.

Mark K.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Mark K

[Skydiver]

A quick warning about the Android v1.02: Only do "Import match registration" once. Unlike the previous version of v0.9 series, when you import more than once, duplicate entries of shooters who have been previously imported show up. As far as I can tell, there is no way to distinguish the previously imported one from the duplicate. So when it's time to enter scores and you hit Random, good luck trying to make sure that you get all the right scores to the right version of the duplicate.

This weekend during one of our bigger matches, we had a major failure where the Androids could only sync with each other, and the iOS could only sync with each other. This was strange because when we were starting out with just stages and registration, there was no problems at all syncing between Androids and iOSes. By the end of the match, though, they became virtual data islands. Sometimes they could see each other on the network, but the syncing would fail. After about 30-45 minutes of futzing around trying to get the virtual data islands to talk to each other, I finally gave up and just sucked data from one of the Android devices into EzWinScore, and then data from one of the iOS into EzWinScore and finally had match results.

[Ken N.]

On Android synching... we are taking a fresh look at it. It's frustrating because the Android OS, in this area, seems very flaky. Josh just got married, and this is a priority on his return.

As an aside, Andrew Smithson, sent this "PractiScore for ScoreKeepers" power point presentation. I've loaded it into Google Doc and made it viewable by all. It is on practiscore.com/support/ or visit directly from this link:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1WFuw0LizbqoNPM_iHEX2KohZy1QDWG_1jHWtpTGI7qipiiqwK9p6PmUbkhRE/edit?pli=1

It might be better titled "What do you do if somebody hands you an iPod and says "score?"

Thanks Andrew!

Our next big match for PS is the Rocky Mountain 3 Gun. I'm looking forward to shooting, and scoring it! I'm even practicing shotgun loading in my copious free time.

Ken N.

[cellguy030]

On Android synching... we are taking a fresh look at it. It's frustrating because the Android OS, in this area, seems very flaky. Josh just got married, and this is a priority on his return.

As an aside, Andrew Smithson, sent this "PractiScore for ScoreKeepers" power point presentation. I've loaded it into Google Doc and made it viewable by all. It is on practiscore.com/support/ or visit directly from this link:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1WFuw0LizbqoNPM_iHEX2KohZy1QDWG_1jHWtpTGI7qipiiqwK9p6PmUbkhRE/edit?pli=1

It might be better titled "What do you do if somebody hands you an iPod and says "score?"

Thanks Andrew!

Our next big match for PS is the Rocky Mountain 3 Gun. I'm looking forward to shooting, and scoring it! I'm even practicing shotgun loading in my copious free time.

Ken N.

Glad to help... new people to this need all the support they can get!

[ProGunGuy]

I've used it at some of the matches and it works pretty good. One things that seems to slow things down is entering the shooters info.

Could a bar code system be integrated into the software? This in theory would allow a barcode reader to just scan a barcode and all the info would be in the system. Of course, HQ would have to have to update their system and issue new card with bar codes.

Any thoughts about this?

[Pigdawg]

What about a QR code the shooter could come up with their own QR image then on their cell phone or just print it out on avery name tags/ business cards.

[Skydiver]

Exactly what I was going to suggest.

Additionally, on the flip side, a QR code can also be generated for stage scores as proof against tampering. People can take snapshots or decode it on their phones.

[Ken N.]

FYI... 1.5.2 just was released in the Apple App Store. Submission... 13 days ago... Sigh.

On Qr Codes... I presume you are talking about shooter identification for scoring. Qr codes are pretty easy to do, we do them in other apps.

We are looking at them for a couple things... shooter registration information / score sheet identification. And synching visually without wifi. In other words, one device puts up a qr code with match info/scores, the other decodes it, synch is done.

The second is a bigger priority, as finding shooters is pretty easy now. But it really isn't terribly difficult, and it could be VERY useful in an open squadding based match. That is why we are considering it. My club is starting an open squadded Tuesday night steel. Anybody can show up anytime.

Qr codes might also be useful for score verification if we can ever get printers working affordably. My preference, though, is to skip printing and build in failsafes so paper isn't needed.

Regards,

Ken N.

[wgnoyes]

Unless they change the rulebook (9.11.2), you'll always have to have paper receipts to give the shooters.

[Ken N.]

Unless they change the rulebook (9.11.2), you'll always have to have paper receipts to give the shooters.

Agree. Exceptions would need to be granted to test such a system.

The model I have in mind is a range with complete wifi, and optionally internet. The scores are sent to a physically secure server - either in the stat shack or the cloud. The server would probably be a PC or Mac in the stat shack. Or if the wifi has access to the internet, then in the cloud at PractiScore.com They are sent on conclusion of the accept score process on a device. If it indicates successful sending of the score, you are done. If it can't connect / successfully store the score, it requires you to write it on paper. On each accept score, it will try to send scores that could go before.

Ken N.

[Mark K]

iOS version 1.5.2

I am entering shooters for next weeks match. If I try and scroll down to G, M, or U in the classification, the app crashes/closes. The App Icon still appears at the bottom of the screen, but when selected, the application opens to the default page, and the shooter that I was trying to enter's data is not there. It does not matter if I am entering a new shooter, adding a shooter from the DB, or editing a shooter already entered, the app crashes if I try to change classification to one of the above.

Anyone else having the problem?

Mark K

[Mark K]

Addendum

I just entered a shooter who's default classification is U. When I tapped that spot on the screen, to change the classification. The app crashed.

MarkK

[Mark K]

Devin at PS told me that the problem comes when I did not have the "X" class selected in the class selection area. Once that was checked, the crash does not happen.

Mark K.

[Ken N.]

The Blue Ridge Mountain 3-Gun is interested in using PractiScore to score their match in Oct.

Normally, I'd fly out and do the stats, but the dates conflict with Pistol Nationals, which I'm already committed too.

I will, however, send devices and related support materials. We are looking for a PractiScore savvy person to help them use PS at the match. You would have to be there for the staff match and main match. I can't speak exactly for the MD, but I'd assume there would be a slot, and you would shoot thru as stats duties permitted. In my experience, PS leaves plenty of time for that. The range is distributed over a large parcel, so range wide wifi isn't available, so roaming / sycning would be necessary.

If interested, contact me directly (kn@kennelson.com) And I'll put you together with the MD. Mid-Atlantic / South East preferred, to keep travel simple.

This is a super fun match that I wish I could attend.

Regards,

Ken N.

[euxx]

What about a QR code the shooter could come up with their own QR image then on their cell phone or just print it out on avery name tags/ business cards.

I submitted enhancement request to public PractiScore issue tracker.

Please comment there too. https://practiscore.com/bugs/view.php?id=70

[Lee Cabana]

We used Practiscore for the first time Saturday at Maine Practical Shooters - an iPad was the master and an iPhone and Andriod phone was used on each of the two squads. There were no problems and everyon was impressed at east of use and having no refresh wait as on the Palms.

The plan is to purchase mid sized tablets for better viewing and putting wear/tear on club devices.

One of the best parts of the system is the one touch posting of the results, then emailing a link to those results to the shooters. Everyone then has access to the full results and can check overall, division and stage standings.

[euxx]

Couple question to developers.

Are there plans to move penalties to the target screen and adding option to select comments/details on those penalties (e.g. failed to engage, shooting outside shooting area, etc) and/or actual rule number (uspsa and/or ipsc).

With large number of slave devices (with 3..5 NSTs it is already painful) it would be really really helpful (and also much faster/easier) to be able to push competitor changes from master to all the slaves (instead of from pulling from master individually on each slave). In my experience it takes several minutes to sync 4 NSTs with master and it doesn't help that NSTs don't remember last entered sync ids. So, you have to go 5 or 6 levels up, then switch to sync page, then correctly type master sync id on NST and then find your way back to the current stage/squad...

[Ken N.]

Couple question to developers.

Are there plans to move penalties to the target screen and adding option to select comments/details on those penalties (e.g. failed to engage, shooting outside shooting area, etc) and/or actual rule number (uspsa and/or ipsc).

With large number of slave devices (with 3..5 NSTs it is already painful) it would be really really helpful (and also much faster/easier) to be able to push competitor changes from master to all the slaves (instead of from pulling from master individually on each slave). In my experience it takes several minutes to sync 4 NSTs with master and it doesn't help that NSTs don't remember last entered sync ids. So, you have to go 5 or 6 levels up, then switch to sync page, then correctly type master sync id on NST and then find your way back to the current stage/squad...

RE: Documenting penalties - yes, planned. We've been swamped with "paying" projects, and are a bit behind on PractiScore desires. But that is intended.

re: Pushing...

Always a security concern, we've been pretty committed to pulling as the safest way to keep somebody from messing with match data. Android synching... we are taking a fresh look at it and trying to make it work as seamless as iOS.

[jcwren]

Couple question to developers.

Are there plans to move penalties to the target screen and adding option to select comments/details on those penalties (e.g. failed to engage, shooting outside shooting area, etc) and/or actual rule number (uspsa and/or ipsc).

With large number of slave devices (with 3..5 NSTs it is already painful) it would be really really helpful (and also much faster/easier) to be able to push competitor changes from master to all the slaves (instead of from pulling from master individually on each slave). In my experience it takes several minutes to sync 4 NSTs with master and it doesn't help that NSTs don't remember last entered sync ids. So, you have to go 5 or 6 levels up, then switch to sync page, then correctly type master sync id on NST and then find your way back to the current stage/squad...

It sounds like you're syncing the NST's FROM the master multiple times during the match? If so, why?

Our policy is that after the initial sync, devices are almost never synced from the master again. The master always syncs FROM the stage devices to accumulate scores. The fewer changes and mucking around with the stage devices decreases the chances of losing data on them.

[euxx]

RE: Documenting penalties - yes, planned. We've been swamped with "paying" projects, and are a bit behind on PractiScore desires. But that is intended.

That is what I thought...

Now I wonder if you you would be willing to take any external volunteer/development help?

re: Pushing...

Always a security concern, we've been pretty committed to pulling as the safest way to keep somebody from messing with match data. Android synching... we are taking a fresh look at it and trying to make it work as seamless as iOS.

With pulling to devices, even without entering sync id it is very intrusive and require fetching devices from ROs hands... (I've entered enhancement request for easier navigation in Mantis, but a quick and simple solution for NST would use Android properties menu and allow to sync directly from there)

You could use some security protocol to allow pushing to slave devices. For example, when match is pulled from Master on a first time, a secret key linked with Master's sync id is generated and saved on slave and also on master along with slave's sync id. So, master can keep track of all devices that pulled given match and can use that list to push the data next time. When match is pushed, slave can verify that secret key matches and only allows accepts pushed from the last master it pulled match from.