the big stink with major 9

[Harmon]

I dont see what the big stink is about major 9, whats different about loading a 9X21 case to the same length as a 9mm(1.1690) and getting major? assuming the internal capacities of the cases are the same, the only difference would be more bullet in the case of the 9X21, two MM more bullet to be exact. the 9X21 is just a rulebook version of major 9mm. same thing, same OAL just two MMs longer than the illegal version. I could see there being a difference if you actually seated the bullet to 38 super length, but when seated the same, you have no measureable difference with chamber pressure or safety.

while at the area 4 championship match, i managed to talk a man into letting me shoot his major 9 open gun. with 4 inch barrel, hybrid ports and a VERRRRY effective comp, the gun was the softest flattest shooting open gun i have shot.

the nice thing was that his lost brass match cost him 300 9mm federal brass that he gets once fired from a police range for 12 dollars a thou. I was impressed with the little gun, more impressive was the 172 power factor when some of the super guys werent making but 166.

can someone tell me why this load wouldnt be safe in a major 9 gun(like the STI TRUBOR)

FMJ 7.8 gr VV N105 1,353 fps 1.161" Vihtavuori

Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr

that load is for a 9X21 but its seated short.

i believe the shooter that so kindly let me shoot his open gun was shooting 124 montana gold jhp with SP2 powder and small rifle primers.

they cant argue that the loads arent safe because they exceed industry maximum pressures, there are very few super 38 loads that are not at the top end of the sane spectrum of pressure.

most major loads are making peak rifle pressures. i have seen some guys still getting primer flow with rifle primers, brass extruding around the feed ramp, stuff like that. yes with the wrong loads, any pistol at this power level becomes dangerous, handloads are dangerous, shooting is dangerous, driving your car is dangerous, these are all acceptable risks.

in the near future i plan on building a major 9 open gun. as long as the PF stays at 165, the 9mm is a option for the open shooter.

Good shootin

DVC

[Alan Meek]

I have not seen anybody giving a stink with 9x19 loaded to major. There are quite a few people using it know. If you are already established with 38 Super and its variants is there a compelling reason to change? Only if you want. I do know of a local shooter that is going to do a major 9 due to the lost brass issues. The major 9 also opens another possibility for other guns (i.e Glock) to more easily play in open.

Alan

(Shooting Major 9 and loving it. I have now gone full circle)

[redmercury2]

are there any advantages to major 9 over 38 super other than lower brass costs?

[Skywalker]

are there any advantages to major 9 over 38 super other than lower brass costs?

Theoretically speaking, a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth instead of the rim should be more precise.

[redmercury2]

i thought the barrels used in building open supers headspace on the case mouth ,for example BAR-STO, NOWLIN , SCHEUMANN ./ ???

[Chriss Grube]

Harmongreer,

I think you're about two to three years late to the table. We got the major nine OAL ban lifted and used the same logic. The BOD lifted the 1.250 length and nobody has looked back. I've been running 9Major since 02. Now it is being used by a bunch of guys.

[Flexmoney]

Ditto to all that has been said.

Who is causing this "big stink"?

[BSeevers]

They all headspace on the case mouth.

38 Super was origionaly set up as rim but only a real old gun does. I mean REAL vintage stuff

Major 9=cheap brass and I'll bet major malfunction if you don't rotate new brass frequently

The reason there was a "big stink" is back when rule was made people were blowing up guns on a regular basis. I mean 1 or 2 a month at a club match. Fear set in until we got better powders than BlueDot and more experience at reloading high pressure. Lowering to 165 PF was good too. I don't think there is a problem most of us just yawn and shoot our guns. 38 Super for me

[Kingman]

I am shooting a super now that I just had built. But after reading these pages more often I am strongly considering my next one being a 9mm major gun.

I tend to just want to leave brass lay at matches, and that can get expensive quick with supers.

[Harmon]

well the big stink i speak of with the major 9 is at the local matches. i shoot limited 10 and production, and want to buy a open gun, looking at brass(cheap at 70 dollars a thousand) Knowing how much i shoot, and as we shoot semi auto pistols we loose brass often. but at 7-10 cents each, the super stuff is expensive.

I said to the guys at the match that i was gonna buy an open gun in major 9. IT was like i just insulted thier mothers. they said 9mm at major was crazy stupid, ect.

not that i care what people think, but out of 20 people, and nobody had anything good to say, i started to wonder if it were as unpopular everywhere.

I had never seen/or shot a major 9 gun untill i went to the area 4 match. I shot it, man it was sweeet. i dont know what the big deal with the supers is. seems like the 9mm gun was more accurate than nearly all the supers i have shot.

any thoughts on a 40 open gun? i guess not many folks use them because of the mag capacity issues.

when looking for a 9mm major gun, does it need to have a 5 inch barrel or will it make major Ok with a 4 inch? The STI stinger looks cool, If not that, a TruBor would work i suppose.

[shred]

IME, the downside of 9-major is limits on your bullet and powder choices, plus extra finickyness to the magazines. The upside is cheap used brass.

Of course if you do pick up most of your brass most of the time, the costs are equivalent and you don't have to deal with the downsides...

[Alan Meek]

I keep hearing talk about the limits of bullet and powder choices to use in the major 9. While I have not tried 115gr bullets I have tried the following powders, Ram Shot True Blue, Hodgdon HS-6 and Longshot, VV N350, 3n37, 3n38 and have been able to make major with these powders and a 124 JHP. Jojo is using a 124 FMJ, Leatham a 135g bullet and a slew of others use the 124 Jhp. So if you compare the bullet choices to those available for the super crowd I think ityou will find the same choices. As time goes on we will try more powder selections and will probably locate more that will do the job. Additionally Hirtenberger has a 124gr 9mm load for subguns use that made major in my short 9.

The bottom line is if you want to shoot a 9x19 loaded to make major it can be done, just make sure that you have a chrono and everything should work out just fine.

[Yardbird]

I'll add Power Pistol to that list of powders. Along with Rainier 124gr bullets.

[Chriss Grube]

I heard the same crap when I built my gun in 9. Like I said before lots of people are doing it now. The mags are easy if you use SV tubes.

[Nik Habicht]

are there any advantages to major 9 over 38 super other than lower brass costs?

Yes, if you shoot Glocks, are already set up to load 9, have gobs of 9 brass.....

[shred]

4756? N105? Either of those fit a 9mm case and make Major? That would be cool.

What powders work with 115's?

[blue edge]

harmongreer, in my neck of the woods MAJOR 9 is the hot setup !!

GM shoters too!!!!!!!

[ong45]

Brass is cheaper only for used . Do you go to a lost brass match and shoot used brass? I certainly wouldn't, and last i checked new 9mm sold for at least 60$per k.

If you go to 9mm so that you could blow it off rather than pick it up , you just end up buying more brass. Brass cost is less of a factor than you might think.

At most ranges, you probably would be encouranged not to leave your brass on the ground.

[Chriss Grube]

I've seen new brass with no flash hole so you're damn right I use once fired brass for big matches. I can buy once fired off a guy that gets it from a indoor Police range for 10 bucks a thousand. It isn't only the brass cost. The nice thing is to hear all the whining from the super shooters!

[Trey]

In my neck of the woods, I've yet to see a major 9 shooter. But I keep saving up my 9 brass until I run into one.

[Alan Meek]

Where is your neck of the woods Trey?

Chris,

I have a shooter that has promised me once fired nickel for free. Now if I can only find him again...

Alan

[Carlos]

ong45 wrote: "At most ranges, you probably would be encouranged not to leave your brass on the ground."

Are you sure about that? Perhaps a survey is in order. Yesterday in Area 8, the Summer Blast - a match which almost rivals the Nationals in size - ended and it is a lost brass match because the pace of the match simply cannot accomodate shooters who want to pick up brass. Most of the local matches in Area 8 are also lost brass (the one exception being the Quantico match though that has been suspended for now).

This subject has come up before & it appears "top experts" do not agree. Sooo, I'll start: Area 8 is generally lost brass - what about the majority of clubs in your area?

MODERATOR: please move/edit/re-title post if appropriate due to thread drift

[cpty1]

Didn't know there was a big stink about major 9, but I don't doubt that your local shooters turned their noses up at a major 9. I saw somewhat the same thing around here at first. Any doubts or questions about the major 9 in this area have been gone for a long time and more and more shooters here are converting. As far as advantages versus disadvantages...like anything, there are some of each. The bullets are the same so that's a wash. I use once fired brass at every match I shoot and will be doing so at the nationals in September. It ain't a big deal. That of course is a huge savings. As Nik said, if you're already set up with reloading gear for the 9mm, that is a factor in the decision and an advantage as well. While usually not an issue, it is worth mentioning that a rimless case will stack more consistently in the magazine and eliminate any problems (however remote) when they strip out of the mag and feed into the gun. Not an advantage when comparing the variations of the 9mm, but is when comparing to the 38 Super. Case capacity, therefore powder selection is somewhat limited but not what I would call restrictive. The Grams kits have eliminated any magazine quirks I've either seen or experienced so that's a done deal now as well. I've put about 9000 rounds of major nine thru my gun in roughly a year. I went to the 9 because I had been shooting production, had tons of 9mm once fired brass; had reloading gear already set up for the 9; had shot plenty of 38 super open guns and after test firing the 9 knew it was as flat as any of that flavor I had ever shot. I have no regrets. When the time comes when I need another open gun.....it'll be another one just like the one I have now, and built by the same gunsmith.

[ong45]

At my range we have a problem with excessive brass on the ground, people who don't reload frequently leave their 9's and .40's. I think it is just good housekeeping to pick up your crap off the ground.

I understand at major matches this may not be practical, usually anyway the "lost brass" at area matches are there for the working ro's to pick up.

I do not think that 9mm major is a bad idea, i just think the cost savings is overblown. Reloaders being a stingy lot by nature ,(including yours truly ) we tend to try anything to save money.

P.S. i will spend 200$ this year buying brass for my rimless .38

James

[Trey]

9mm,

I'm in Roseburg, Oregon.

As for brass, here. Practice, local/section points, local steel matches - you pick up your brass.

State match or larger, we don't.