XL650 Inconsistent OALs

[snow patrol]

Loading .40 S&W on my XL650. All dies are Redding, except for the powder die. Seating die is a Redding Competition Micrometer die. I'm getting a varience of +/- .004 to .005 in my loaded OAL measured bullet tip to cartridge base. Bullets I'm seating right now are Berry's 180 DSFP.

Using a single stage press, at most I would get a variance of +/- .001" on my OAL. Is there something I should be looking for that would be causing this? I do have the thrust bearing mod installed, and shellplate has no wobble, so I'm thinking there's a toolhead issue.

Now I did this run of 100 with clean brass and no lube. (I know, I should be using lube...) could the increased stiction from the lack of lube on station 1 be changing the degree of play on the toolhead at station 4? I know the toolhead has a small amount of up and down play as the press does its thing, I'm just not sure what look for that may be causing my OAL to be all over the place.

[The_Vigilante]

That amount of variation is acceptable. However if it concerns you I would look into the Uniquetek Toolhead Clamp kit: http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1230 I have used it with some success on both of my 650's. YMMV

Edited December 26, 2011 by The_Vigilante

[JThompson]

That amount of variation is acceptable. However if it concerns you I would look into the Uniquetek Toolhead Clamp kit: http://www.uniquetek...6/product/T1230 I have used it with some success on both of my 650's. YMMV

Ya, I wouldn't sweat that much...

[JaeOne3345]

Loading .40 S&W on my XL650. All dies are Redding, except for the powder die. Seating die is a Redding Competition Micrometer die. I'm getting a varience of +/- .004 to .005 in my loaded OAL measured bullet tip to cartridge base. Bullets I'm seating right now are Berry's 180 DSFP.

First of all, not to insult you, but did you set your OAL with the other stations full?

Second, you have to remember that the Redding seater die does not adjust using the very tip of the bullet like a traditional Dillon die does. It makes contact with the ogive of the bullet and sizes off of that.

If you have slight manufacturing differences in bullets (which is often the case with plated/coated/lead you will not have reliable measurements from using the very tip of the bullet.

You are measuring oal from bullet tip to the bottom of the case, but your Redding seater is using the distance from the ogive to the base of the case.

[wes777]

+ or - .005 isnt bad. I am running .003 also with the redding comp seater. I have tried several different things to get below that, but to no avail. I am not going to attempt to make it better, it is pretty good for a progressive.

btw am also running the toolhead clamp.

Edited December 26, 2011 by wes777

[TimG_SC]

snow patrol, on 26 December 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

Loading .40 S&W on my XL650. All dies are Redding, except for the powder die. Seating die is a Redding Competition Micrometer die. I'm getting a varience of +/- .004 to .005 in my loaded OAL measured bullet tip to cartridge base. Bullets I'm seating right now are Berry's 180 DSFP.

First of all, not to insult you, but did you set your OAL with the other stations full?

Second, you have to remember that the Redding seater die does not adjust using the very tip of the bullet like a traditional Dillon die does. It makes contact with the ogive of the bullet and sizes off of that.

If you have slight manufacturing differences in bullets (which is often the case with plated/coated/lead you will not have reliable measurements from using the very tip of the bullet.

You are measuring oal from bullet tip to the bottom of the case, but your Redding seater is using the distance from the ogive to the base of the case.

I was just reading this post when I saw your comment. I am new and just setting up for the first time. Please insult me.Should I set my OAL with the other stations full?

Thanks

[Sarge]

Should I set my OAL with the other stations full?

Thanks

Yes. Fill the shell plate to set seating die.

[TimG_SC]

Thanks. Thats what I did but I just wanted to make make sure. I set up all the dies in order starting with station 1, so all the other stations were full when I got to station 5(seating).

[Pat Miles]

Thanks. Thats what I did but I just wanted to make make sure. I set up all the dies in order starting with station 1, so all the other stations were full when I got to station 5(seating).

All the other stations were full as in there were cartridges in each station and being going into their respective die at the same time you were setting your bullet seating die for the OAL length you wanted?

Pat

Edited December 27, 2011 by Pat Miles

[wes777]

Thanks. Thats what I did but I just wanted to make make sure. I set up all the dies in order starting with station 1, so all the other stations were full when I got to station 5(seating).

You are seating in station 5? typo?

Edited December 28, 2011 by wes777

[shooter57]

The last station should be for crimping.

[bassochist]

dump the micrometer seater die, i few guys i know had the same problems with oal differences with using the redding competition die, after they switched to the dillon seater die, the oal differences were significantly reduced.

[The_Vigilante]

Plus 1 to post from bassochist. I sold my Redding Competition Seating Die for the same reason-it kept moving never giving me an OAL I could live with

[JaeOne3345]

dump the micrometer seater die, i few guys i know had the same problems with oal differences with using the redding competition die, after they switched to the dillon seater die, the oal differences were significantly reduced.

Plus 1 to post from bassochist. I sold my Redding Competition Seating Die for the same reason-it kept moving never giving me an OAL I could live with

I'd bet money that the Redding die is super consistent but its your bullet profile that is inconsistent.

My Redding die is accurate to the .001" with the bullets I am using, as long as I am taking seating measurements on rounds that were made with the shell plate FULL.

You have to remember that it pushes down on the ogive, not the very tip of the projectile.

My redding die leaves a seater ring on the ogive. My dillon die leaves a ring/mark on the very tip.

I use bear creek 200 grain moly (40).

I also took it apart and reassembled it when I unboxed it, which was a tip I read here on the forum.

Read this entire thread related to the Redding and ogive:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=134723

Edited December 28, 2011 by JaeOne3345

[RiggerJJ]

when using a redding competition seat die, you CANNOT get all wrapped up about OAL differences! the OAL will change slightly because the bullet tip is different. I would bet that if you could measure the amount of bullet inside the case, it would be almost exactly the same when using this type of seating die, which helps with consistent loads, keeps the ogive from the lands of the barrel the same, etc... minor differences in OAL will do little or nothing, as long as the round fits the mag...

jj

[JaeOne3345]

when using a redding competition seat die, you CANNOT get all wrapped up about OAL differences! the OAL will change slightly because the bullet tip is different. I would bet that if you could measure the amount of bullet inside the case, it would be almost exactly the same when using this type of seating die, which helps with consistent loads, keeps the ogive from the lands of the barrel the same, etc... minor differences in OAL will do little or nothing, as long as the round fits the mag...

jj

+100

[Sarge]

Plus 1 to post from bassochist. I sold my Redding Competition Seating Die for the same reason-it kept moving never giving me an OAL I could live with

I'll second that! I bought one on the forums and sold it again a week later. It was nowhere near as consistent as my Dillon seater. As for the Ogive vs tip argument. It's a good argument until you throw in that MG bullets are pretty well made and very consistent in dimension. I was getting single digit SD's with the Dillon so I'm pretty sure it was seating pretty consistently even if it is using the tip of the bullet.

[JaeOne3345]

Plus 1 to post from bassochist. I sold my Redding Competition Seating Die for the same reason-it kept moving never giving me an OAL I could live with

I'll second that! I bought one on the forums and sold it again a week later. It was nowhere near as consistent as my Dillon seater. As for the Ogive vs tip argument. It's a good argument until you throw in that MG bullets are pretty well made and very consistent in dimension. I was getting single digit SD's with the Dillon so I'm pretty sure it was seating pretty consistently even if it is using the tip of the bullet.

How about this technique, if you don't have a comparator.

Take the seater plug out of the bullet seating die, place it on top of the cartridge and measure from the base of the case to the top of the seater plug.

This would take the tip completely out of the equation and let you know if the Redding was really at fault.

Lots of people have consistent results when they change brands/types of projectiles, which also tells you it is the projectile, not the die.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=49235

Edited December 29, 2011 by JaeOne3345

[lugnut]

Loading .40 S&W on my XL650. All dies are Redding, except for the powder die. Seating die is a Redding Competition Micrometer die. I'm getting a varience of +/- .004 to .005 in my loaded OAL measured bullet tip to cartridge base. Bullets I'm seating right now are Berry's 180 DSFP.

First of all, not to insult you, but did you set your OAL with the other stations full?

Second, you have to remember that the Redding seater die does not adjust using the very tip of the bullet like a traditional Dillon die does. It makes contact with the ogive of the bullet and sizes off of that.

If you have slight manufacturing differences in bullets (which is often the case with plated/coated/lead you will not have reliable measurements from using the very tip of the bullet.

You are measuring oal from bullet tip to the bottom of the case, but your Redding seater is using the distance from the ogive to the base of the case.

Well said. I also use Berrys and like you mentioned some variation is going to happen for the reasons you post. I also see variation depending on how much lube I use or don't used. When I use lube I see my ammo "shrinking" by several thousandths compared to the same components without lube.

[glefos]

Have you disassembled the Redding seater and cleaned it? New dies appear to come with that same goop new guns are covered in. Both in 9 and 40, new/uncleaned dies had a larger variation than after I cleaned them. In the last 7500 rounds my average OAL standard deviation is .0014".