Flying with firearms

[dab]

I wouldn't use my range bag as my carry on. There's too much of a chance of something, like a bullet, being somewhere in the depths of the bag that you missed at home. To me, it's not worth the risk.

[fiddler]

I tried to fly from Mesa, AZ to home in Missoula, MT with a Dillon 550 in my carry-on bag. TSA made me check it because, get this, the press handle could be used as a club. As if anyone as cheap as me would chance bending a $48 piece of metal.

I don't feel safer.

I feel worse because the bag did not make it onto the plane. Hopefully I'll feel better when it shows up on Monday.

[High Lord Gomer]

BTW, I have flown through San Diego, LAX, and SFO with no problems. Actually, the TSA agent in SFO told me that my one-sided lock on the S&W case wasn't technically sufficient (she still let me go) and she was right...I tried prying open the case and I was able to get the pistol out even with the lock on the case. I drilled another hole and solved that problem.

I am considering taking the Pelican in the future...anybody ever "lost" theirs in transit when it wasn't inside another piece of luggage?

I usually put my locked S&W case inside a piece of ratty, abused luggage that noone would ever look twice at.

[Rotisiv]

Only airline I've had issues with is airtrane they don't allow amunition. Found that out flew into Atlanta from Chicago no problem flying out of Atlanta back to Chicage was told no ammo had to turn it in to the police at the airport. Didn't check airtran rules before flying will not fly them anymore fly delta now.

[XRe]

Only airline I've had issues with is airtrane they don't allow amunition. Found that out flew into Atlanta from Chicago no problem flying out of Atlanta back to Chicage was told no ammo had to turn it in to the police at the airport. Didn't check airtran rules before flying will not fly them anymore fly delta now.

FWIW - AirTran is no longer - they are now part of Southwest. Southwest is more than friendly about firearms

[Norther]

Okay, some people pack their ammo with the gun and some say use a separate bag. If I understand the regs correctly, I can pack it in the same bag as the gun. Input?

[blaster113]

just came back from flying Interisland for our state match on the same airline; even flying within our own small state and on the same carrier check in procedures were a little different...

[Maksim]

Just a note from NJ.

NJ will not be an issue unless you leave the airport with the gun, otherwise, no issues.

NYC, is absolutely a no no, and they do not recognize any laws. The only way to get a gun out of NYC is with a NYC firearms license.

[Joe4d]

something that hasnt been mentioned, INSURANCE, most of the policies including the one the NRA sells is worthless. They do not cover your gun if a third party you voluntarily give your gun to looses it. Many of these companies consider TSA or ailing baggage handlers a third party. It would behove you to check and get it specifically in writing that your gun is covered while in checked baggage.

[Maksim]

Okay, some people pack their ammo with the gun and some say use a separate bag. If I understand the regs correctly, I can pack it in the same bag as the gun. Input?

No ammo in the same plastic case as the gun, but the gun case, and ammo can be in the same piece of luggage.

i have an MGM case where I put the gun, with a regular combo lock. Ammo is already in my checked bag.

go to check in counter, and tell them you need to declare an unloaded firearm, and they will tell you procedure.

Some airlines had me fill out the form and put it in the gun case, others did not even care to see it, and wanted the gun tag somewhere in my bag. Some will have you wait.

Las Vegas, I waited at the counter for TSA agent to come and clear the bag, and just gave me the ok, they ran it through xray.

Orlando, I took the bag to TSA screener who manually checked the bag, but did not open the gun case.

ACY, PHL, they just said go ahead, and they would call me if any issues.

Not once did they ask to have it unlocked, and my lock is not a TSA lock.

[gm iprod]

I travel internationally, mainly in and out of USA.

We leave the suitcases unlocked and the handgun cases within a suitcase are padlocked with two locks, I sometimes travel with up to 4 handguns. For long guns they obviously are one checked piece. I have always had to travel with two bags whenever I travel. So ammo (when I take it) is in the other suitcase from the firearms. I now try to not take ammo when I travel to the US, 4kg more goodies I can take up.

I wait around until the TSA have completed the Xray and then completed (if required) going through my bags, I do not have TSA compliant locks on the firearms cases, my contact details, flight number are always on the outside of my bags and I get there plenty early (except once ) . One year when I had a lot of gear, one TSA guy took 20 minutes to check all the bags that we were flying with (5 pieces for two people) and repacked the bags better than I did, they were worried about two AR uppers that looked "weird" on the Xray, big long metal tubes with a hollow centre, yep that's a barrel. Polite and thorough, that was in LA on my way home, two years ago. Other times they just don't seem to care as long as the paperwork is in order and I am carrying nothing 50cal.

The only time we have had issues is when I have returned home through Tahiti and Sydney Australia. NEVER AGAIN. Two of the bags landed up being two days late, left off the plane in Tahiti, then stopped in Australia for a day, obviously nicer weather. Guess which two. They arrived, and were delivered to me at work all unopened and the paperwork for the firearms not even being checked back in.

Funniest trip was back in 2003. Been to the Bianchi Cup in MO and had to travel to Phoenix to see the guys at Dillon and call on other suppliers. On the way home heading into the Airport there was some Orange Alert and the place was crawling with Police. Check points at the outer perimeter and all vehicles being stopped. I had two handguns and 300 rounds of ammo. "Anything we need to know about in the car sir?" asked the big Policeman at the check point. UM YUP! He hit the trifecta, guns, ammo and foreigner. "Just pull the car to the side, Sir!".

He checked my passport and paperwork and jumped in the car with me and his really big (as opposed to just big) partner followed me to the Rental Return, that was the fastest rental return ever, all my gear into their car, me in the back. Boy that was weird. Straight up to the doors, turn on the park anywhere lights, an Airline Rep with trolley was waiting for us, nice of them to call ahead. Everybody moved aside real fast. Was getting really weird now, all sorts of strange looks. Straight down to First Class check in, jump the queue, "Afternoon, this man needs checking in, right now!" say really big police officer. No problems there, they escorted me to the TSA, right to the front again, then off to the departure area and we were again to the front at security check, and they said have a nice flight, I thanked them and shock there hands and I was in, I resisted the urge to tip them. 15 minutes from front door to beer. Amazing service.

Edited March 22, 2012 by gm iprod

[baa]

II have used on several occasions my range bag as my carry-on. I used to be afraid of the swab test but it has NEVER indicated anything! Makes me happy but also concerned at the same time!!

Agreed. I have passed the swab test many times with bags which have been exposed to gun powder residue.

However! I have had a single loose round get stuck in a seam on my carry on and had a long painful session with TSA while they questioned me and basically tore the bag apart to find the round. They ended up letting me go with a fine, but it took the better part of 45 minutes. For 1 9mm 147g round. It was in Dallas and the TSA guy in charge was a retired cop who shot PPC for decades and when I told him I was a competition shooter, he was understanding.

So I do not ever use a carry on bag which has had ammo in it after that experience.

[MiniUzi]

I've flown a few dozen times in the USA with one or more legal machine guns on my way to subgun matches across the country. During those trips I've refined how I travel with firearms and here are the lessons I learned, some of which were already mentioned and a few that were not.

Insurance

First and foremost if all else fails you should have insurance. I personally use insurance from historic firearms which costs about $120 a year for $30k in coverage and less of course for lesser amounts. The coverage covers all my guns and gear while in transit. So the moment I leave my front door everything is covered, from my accessories to my gun.

KNOW the facts

Secondly not everybody you deal with in life is smart or good at their job. Airport workers and TSA are no different and for that reason you should carry with you both the TSA regulations on traveling with firearms and ammo as well as the regulations for the particular airline you are traveling on which can be found on their website. (American, Delta) . Sometimes you may encounter a confused employee who insists you are in the wrong. Don't be afraid to point out the information you have from their own website to prove your point. Issues usually arise in regards to the number of firearms or suppressors allowed per bag or the weight and packaging of ammunition. Kill them with kindness and facts. Some airlines insist the rounds be in the original manufactures packaging.If you reload and you put your rounds into the plastic reload boxes YOU are the manufacturer so their objections are moot and you may have to explain that to a supervisor if they don't comprehend that you make your own bullets.

Check out my Weather Equipment

I pack my guns in a Pelican 1600 case which has served me well for about eight years now. It's dedicated for my guns and I usually travel with an Uzi, 10 magazines and a pistol or two. The bag you put your guns in should in no way identify it as a firearm container. Putting something like "weather instruments", "radio tubes" or "machined parts" or similar on the outside pretty much labels your bag as junk to the luggage monkeys once it's past security which may reduce the chance of them wanting to even look inside let alone steal it. They can ransack the Louis Vuitton bag behind mine instead.

Department of Redundancy Department

The one thing I have learned is that the standard at the TSA and airport check-in is that there is no standard at TSA and airport check-in. Some folks behind the counter ask for you to show the firearms clear, others don't. The main thing is to be polite and professional. Even though the petite old lady behind the counter may not know which end the bullets come out of when she asks you to "show me the guns are empty" you need to go through the motions. She's doing her job, so you do yours as a good traveler with guns. Often the folks behind the counter will simply give you the big red card that you sign stating the guns are clear and you put it in your case and that's it. Just like at the range you are responsible for your gun so make sure it's clear. One round in a magazine or in the chamber can cost you a lot more than just a delayed flight. I get a kick out of the reaction from other passengers in line as the distinct sound of a gun locking open is heard . I really wish they had a more private area to do the clearing at as I've seen people walk out of line and scurry as if they thought bad things were about to happen. It is what it is I suppose.

Look but don't touch

Depending on the airport you may have to take your bag to a TSA screening point where they x-ray your bag as you stand there. If this is the case and they decide they need to open your bag (sometimes I think it's to just look at the toys inside) then you will have to provide them with a key or combination for your locks if they are non-TSA locks. If you have a gun case with multiple layers TSA agents in some airports won't be able to physically touch your guns or even the top layer of foam to look at the bottom layer. (Silly right?) So in some instances I've had TSA ask me to lift the top layer of foam so they could look under it at the bottom layer (where 10 magazines and the Uzi are). Your mileage may vary but again, let them do their job, they are forced to check luggage all day so don't pick this as the time to rant about the second amendment and the government intruding on your rights... save that for the "inter webs" and people who care.

I'd like to give a shout out to Mike in the (313)

The other end of the spectrum is that some airports just toss the bag on the belt like the others and the TSA screening is done on a lower level out of your sight. As mentioned previously use Non-TSA locks on the outside of the case. The my personal choice is the brand "Peli-Lock" and they are solid brass combination locks so I don't need to worry about losing a key. On the inside top layer of foam I include a pair of replacement locks in the event the TSA had to cut mine. I also put in a note on the top layer that states who I am, what my cell # is and where I am traveling from and to and what flight I am on as well as an alternative contact number (my wife) in the event I'm not available. The letter also asks them to call me if they open the case. Only once they cut my locks and a nice guy named Mike from Detroit's TSA called me to let me know. TSA in general seem to be pretty cool cats from my experience. The goal of the note is that wanted to remove any reason anyone could possibly have for not doing "the right thing" when handling my gear. There is no reason it would be sitting somewhere opened without me knowing about it.

Sometimes I feel like somebody's watching me

The outside of my case has a few custom markings so I can easily ID my bag and near the latches a sticker that clearly reads FOR ACCESS CALL and my cell number. Near that is a sticker that says GPS TRACKING ID 12F56324. They may not fear arrest for stealing but the little thieving bastards might fear the notion of satellites tracking my bag and them with it.

I touch myself

As competitive shooters we are all are very comfortable with all things gun related. That means that on occasion we may not think twice about tossing an extra magazine into our laptop bag or putting a round we picked up at a match after we showed clear into a pant or shirt pocket. I can't stress this enough, search everything before you fly. What many of us take for granted such as single primer, an empty magazine, or projectile forgotten can end a trip before it even gets started.

So far so good

I've had about a dozen or so trips with $8,000+ in firearms equipment in one case and no major issues besides two cut locks and the numerous silent prayers when waiting at the baggage claim area saying "please let my bag come out next". I never feel 100% good about traveling via air but having insurance is a HUGE comfort and it's affordable.

anyway.. that's my 2 cents and I hope it helps. You can't remove all the risks but you can mitigate them.

-Todd

Edited April 4, 2012 by MiniUzi

[Norther]

Great post miniuzi! Thanks for the info.

[Jim Norman]

I am going to save MiniUzi's post print it out.

Definitely going to follow the guidelines for the interior marking and for packing extra locks. Lots of good info there.

Not flying with guns very much, I was surprised at the differences airport to airport in checking guns.

I particularly like the "Weather Instruments" marking on the Pelican Case and the GPS Tracking Device ID Number!

So much good info.

Thanks

[mikegot38]

Just a note from NJ.

NJ will not be an issue unless you leave the airport with the gun, otherwise, no issues.

NYC, is absolutely a no no, and they do not recognize any laws. The only way to get a gun out of NYC is with a NYC firearms license.

Beware travelling through NJ. The Revell case which is from the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals which covers NJ and PA says that you lose your FOPA protection when you deviate from your journey. In Revell, his connecting flight from out west to PA went through Newark, NJ and was cancelled. He took luggage to hotel, did not tough gun and was arrested when returing to the airport. You must read the case if you plan to travel into or through NJ and plaese do not spend the night in NJ without a NJ fireams ID card.