hopalong Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I'm with you on the stage 11 Lynn. This is my second year at A-4 the stages and range officers are always top notch and hats off to the CRO and RO staff. I will not be attending another A-4 match for the format was not very thought out, don't start shooting at 9:30 in the morning shoot two stages max, send the squads to lunch and then try to get 3 or 4 stages shot in the heat of the day, maybe on Friday to allow drive in shooters the time to get there but not Saturday when everyone shooting is in town, start earlier and make sure you don't have to shoot but 2 stages max on Sunday to let the shooters get home at a decent time (1:00AM for me this year). For those who shot on squad 14 with me, I enjoyed meeting you and shooting with ya'll I am sorry about the 2 DQ's we had in our squad I personally don't like having stages that make the ROs have to work that much harder due to circumstances like that. ( another reason ) To the staff and stats, great job!!!!!! To the planners, the half day format a few years back was great maybe try that again and a few more squads instead of bigger squads. I know that you can not please everybody and some one always has it a little tougher than the next so good luck next year but my entry fee and the other 800 dollars this match cost me to attend will stay home. SAM KEEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockman30 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Sorry to hear that Sam. I heard a little talk about changing the format, but it is just hear-say. I'm wondering why we started at 9:30 on Friday and Saturday, and 8:00 on Sunday??? If we could start at 8:00 on Sunday why not Friday and Saturday. In an hour an a half we could run two more squads. Then hold the awards Saturday night. This would make it two very long days. Run 4 squads before lunch, and 4 squads after on Friday. Run 4 squads before lunch, and 3 squads after on Saturday. Shooting should conclude at 4:45, and have awards around 7 or 8 that night. I don't know... Just my 2 cents.....never mind, only 1 cent is all it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Hobdell Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 My Congratulations to Matt, he shot a great match. Second time we have met and first time we shot togteher had a great time, especially running in the water. LOL. I think that is why I left England Duhh Anybody who does not know Matt Mink, what a great guy, a true sportsman and competitor. Pleasure to shoot with the whole squad and look forward to doing it again soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks Keith - It was really great shooting with you guys. As usual, the shooters in this sport are top notch. Keith chose to shoot the last day clean on targets - but filthy in mud I, like many, earned my fair share of penalties and screw ups. My hat is off to Steve Broom though, in a tough match he only shot one miss and one no shoot. I talked with him a bit and I know he's making his bid for the Lim-10 nationals this year. Certainly he has the skills to do it and if he shoots like he did this weekend I am convinced he'll pull it off. It was great to meet many of you. Phil, Keith, Lee (ok we didn't meet but I saw you a couple of times in passing) - Troy it was good to see you again. You too Matt (congratulations dude!). Renee - you too! Angus was the only one who actually recognized me. We'd be BSing with people and he'd say "do you know who this is?" - noone ever did I'm sure I've missed a couple of ya - I learned a lot at the match, basically that I still have a long ways to go. In that regard it was well worth the mikes, no shoots, and various other screw ups. Its all a learning experience. I'm not convinced I'll stay in limited-10. I wouldn't have been competitive at this match no matter what I shot, but I got that hankering in my belly when I saw all the big dogs in limited. That's where I wanted to race - limited-10 was probably my half assed attempt at getting back into this thing without worrying about being competitive . . . now I guess I want to be competitive. It was fun battling against Steve (ok - not a battle - he thumped me bad, but it was fun thinking I was going to battle with Steve ) but the match did show me I CAN get to where I want to be - it'll just take a little more time. Stage 11 and 12 both were sketchy for me. 11 because of the reason's stated (no offense Troy ) and stage 12 because of the significant luck factor involved - but oh well - if I'd shot better and smarter I'm certain I would've thought the stages were GREAT Anywho - Thanks All! It was fun to get back! JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Dimaculangan Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks alot Lee, now I can't hide anymore. I can't help that my classification hasn't caught up yet, it's getting there.Anyway I had alot of fun shooting with some great talented guys. Those guys are fast in the south.......... Tommy - you shot a great match - always a pleasure to shoot w/ fun and talented shooters - sorry most of the shooters in our squad were too young to drink or go into casinos LOL --- Congrats on your A class win =], well deserved matt mink - it was nice to finally meet you - congrats on a good match also congrats to max and blake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Stage 11 and 12 both were sketchy for me. 11 because of the reason's stated (no offense Troy ) and stage 12 because of the significant luck factor involved - but oh well - if I'd shot better and smarter I'm certain I would've thought the stages were GREAT Anywho - Thanks All! It was fun to get back! JB Hi, Jack. No offense taken--like I told Lynn, I didn't like it either, but it was what it was. Not my design, just mine to make work. It was good seeing you shooting again; I hope to see you at many more matches. All the competitors who came through stage 11 were great. It was nice to see all the BE'ers, even though only one introduced himself as such. Sam Keen is always fun to hang around with. I appreciated all the help, too. Even with people shooting the movers we averaged under 3 minutes clearance time for each competitor, and those squads were huge. Nobody complained about helping, and we were having to dodge people competing to tape targets in order to get them scored. Thanks! This was my daughter Libby's first big match and she did very well. I think she liked meeting all the new people and getting her hand shaken after the stage. The Shootout range is right in my back yard, so to speak (4 hours), and Area 4 is my home area--I haven't missed one since 1992 (as either a competitor or RO or AD or something). I do think the squadding and scheduling could have been done a bit differently--of course you can't please everybody. And, you can't do anything about the weather, but Sunday morning was the wettest I've been at a match since the 1993 Nationals. But, the sun came out just about the time we were finished, so that was a good thing. Heck, I didn't even get rained on too much going home. Congratulations to Wayne Miller and Ken Hicks on a good match, and to everybody who came out to shoot, work, or spectate, thanks for contributing to the sport. A big thanks to the vendors and sponsors as well. No match is without it's problems, but Wayne and the Range Master, Ray Hirst, handled them well. Good job, guys. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockman30 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Congratulations to Wayne Miller and Ken Hicks on a good match, and to everybody who came out to shoot, work, or spectate, thanks for contributing to the sport. A big thanks to the vendors and sponsors as well. No match is without it's problems, but Wayne and the Range Master, Ray Hirst, handled them well. Good job, guys.Troy I agree 100%. It's hard work ROing matches like this, but the great people(staff & shooters) make it worth it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 hey guys, I was on squad 3 with MarkS_A18138 and AikidoGirl. I sure hated his mishap Friday, but what a great sport. Always there pasting and setting up and a great attitude. I saw and met several BE'ers and enjoyed meeting the new people. This was my first Area match and boy did I have fun. I would shoot well on one stage and tank the next one. I never zeroed one but had a couple with -30 and -40 on them. I will never be able to express my surprise at having my name called for 3rd place "C" limited. What an experience. The stages were great, the round count high, and the mud thick . I've never shot in weather like we had Sunday morning but once your shoes filled with water, it was time to shoot. We shot stages 1 and 2. I'm sure the other stages were just as messy but the water was ankle deep on stage one. One guy's magazine fell out of his gun and it seemed like we waded for 3 or 4 minutes before we found it. Everyone has something to complain about, myself included. But the great RO's, match organizers and shooters made a match with 250 competitors run pretty smooth. I'll be back next year. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I look forward to Area 4 every year. Call me a fair weather shooter because we headed to the house Sunday morning, considering we had an 8 hour drive ahead of us, doing it covered in mud wasn't even an option. Great match as always, stage 11 was one of my favorites, but I should have played it safe on the movers, but I tried to be a hero and shoot the movers and plugged a no-shoot in the process. Found out Libby doesn't take bribes either, I offered her $100 to quietly tape the no-shoot, all I got was a stare Big Time gamers stage, but it's nice to see some stages where you actually have to think now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisva Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks alot Lee, now I can't hide anymore. I can't help that my classification hasn't caught up yet, it's getting there. I didn't know anyone was looking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Found out Libby doesn't take bribes either, I offered her $100 to quietly tape the no-shoot, all I got was a stare......J/K The $100 overlay only works on perfect doubles! Wait, did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Oh, Libby would have given you a double on the no-shoot for $100--no doubt about it. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Could some of you that were at the match expand a little more on stage 11. I think this is the stage with the two trolley cars. It seems that some of you were not happy with that stage. The reason I ask is that we are running a stage very similiar to that one at the WI sectional this year. I had always wanted to build some sort of mover like that, and when I saw that stage for area 4, we modified it for our state match. Was it to hard? I can't beleive that 90% of the shooters would pass up 40 possible points unless it was a really hard shot. We built a prototype and ran it at last months club match and everyone loved it. Any more insight in to the stage would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I ran stage 11 shooting at only one of the movers and had (for most of the match at least-- I and the guy that shot it believe the 100% score is erroneous) the best score of anybody that shot at them and I was somewhere around 10th. The time-saving by not shooting them was just too big. Make 'em appear quicker, have something for the shooters to do besides wait and there may be more to it. Maybe have one of the targets on each stay appeared... that would be entertaining. The only complaint I heard about the match operation was the scorekeeper on one stage that insisted on keeping the only available table completely clear of any shooting bags whatsoever.. even in the pouring rain and mud. That was annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I was the CRO on stage 11. There were two trolleys that were popper activated, either individually by their own pepper popper, or simultaneously with one common popper. At first, some of the shooters shot at them, but most of the competitors soon figured out that they could cut quite a bit of time off by not shooting at them--enough to make it worth not taking 40 points PLUS avoiding no-shoot penalties which were easy to get. The trolleys were running uprange at an angle to the shooter, so there wasn't as much target visible as if it were going perpendicular to the shooter, and there was a no-shoot overlapping the A border on the forward and rear targets. High disaster factor. The two trolleys ran at about a medium speed, but took a second or two to appear after being activated, and the only thing to shoot at back there was the activating poppers, so the time seemed interminable I'm sure. I'd have fixed it by moving the two paper targets from the middle to the end of the stage (as it's drawn in the match book) and by making the targets appear almost instantly when activated. That way, no wait, and something else to shoot at to boot. This is often overlooked when setting up disappearing targets--providing another target to engage while waiting for the target to appear helps with a lot of people's timing. At any rate, someone put a calculator on it early on and figured that they could get about 2 hit factor "points" by not shooting the movers, so from then on, very few competitors did shoot at them. Overall, not a bad idea for a stage, but it could be gamed and it was. No problem really--they wanted to give the shooters the option, and they accomplished that. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Match Videos (low quality WMV, 2-4 MB each) from some of Squad 12 at Area 4 are up on my site. Particularly amusing are stages 7, 8 and 9 as they were shot Sunday morning. http://www.shred2.net/~shred/gallery/Area42004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockman30 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Shred, Thank you for posting these videos. Now I can show many people at work what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks Shred, it's always interesting and educational to watch foreign stages, both from a conceptual and a carrying out point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Yeah.. As a reminder for any US shooters that want to see some foreign stages, I've got videos from the Columbus Cup up at http://www.shred2.net/~shred/gallery/ColumbusCup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris40 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 I had a lot of fun at Area 4 this year I was with squad 9. I did not shoot that good. Congratulations to all the winners and hope to see ya'll at the next one. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 The fix for stage 11? Easy - make the targets non-dissappearing. Any stage where it is better to give up 40 points in the interest of speed is probably not that well designed. For all practical purposes, that's like having 3 misses during any given stage (3 10 point penalties plus 15 points in hits not earned) I can't think of a time in my career when I though "ok - three misses is what I want on this stage" That's my $.02. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 The fix for stage 11? Easy - make the targets non-dissappearing or make it mutiple exposier lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 That isexactly what we considered doing. We were going to have a steel no-shoot that the targets paseed behind to get the multiple exposure, or we were going to have some really small ports where the targets came to rest so that the shooters had to take the trolley targets. They did that at area 2 last year, no one in there right mind would have tried to take the shots through the ports they provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleashed Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Area 4 was a great match....I shot Area 6 (AKA "the swamp") so none of you have anything to whine about, unless you were there! Everyday was like Sunday morning. I have to give kudos to all that worked Area 4, ya'll did a great job. Unless you worked stage 5....I will throw a big BS flag to the fact that there were three RO's keeping a "hawk eye" on the shooter during that stage. If the stage design required that much oversight in the name of safety.....it was designed wrong. Just my opinion....I could be wrong! I would like to thank my squad for putting up with my lateness, since I can't read the schedule! I ran with squad 10 and they are a great bunch of guys. Take care all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 My Congratulations to Matt, he shot a great match. Second time we have met and first time we shot togteher had a great time, especially running in the water. LOL. I think that is why I left England DuhhAnybody who does not know Matt Mink, what a great guy, a true sportsman and competitor. Pleasure to shoot with the whole squad and look forward to doing it again soon. Much thanks for the kind words Angus! And speaking of a true sportsman, who else but Angus would invite me over to Tuesday night steel at Rio Salado, loan me everything I needed, then proceed to make me feel like home? I had a blast. I just happened to be in Phoenix the Tuesday after Area 4, and Angus was kind enough to meet me out at Rio after work. I've always wanted to shoot at Rio, and shoot that match in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now