SSC team needs some help

[anilson]

Hi, Everyone

I help coach the University of Vermont pistol team. We have a SSC match this weekend.

Problem:

In prep for the Match we have been shooting the 4 different steel stages. Today many team members were missing the first plate on Speed Option.

But they would have good hits on the other four plates. A few of them were missing low every time, but had dead center hits on other plates.

Any Ideas?

Thanks Adam

[Steve J]

Trigger control and/or sight alignment and visual patience. It could be any combination of the three in varying degrees. If they are missing low, they could be flinching or jerking the trigger or they could be anticipating and not waiting to see the sights on the target or they could be breaking the shot before they have the proper sight picture and alignment on the target. The next four targets are obviously somewhat easier once you get the gun up and on the first target. The mechanics and fundamentals required to get the first shot on target are harder and require special attention.

[DonovanM]

Maybe they're shooting before the gun stops moving on the draw? It could also be coupled with a blink. I have a video of myself shooting a 20 yard Bill drill and I blinked on the first shot but my eyes were wide open on the next 5.

I would have them practice pausing with the sights aligned on the first plate just long enough to know they paused before shooting it. Will be interesting to see if it changes their times at all. I think it won't.

Good luck. I wish my goddamn school had a pistol team. WTF.

[Jerome]

I'm looking for answers as well as I have the same issue. Frustrating. The first shot is consistently low - good enough for USPSA targets but kills me on steel plates.

Just found this after viewing DonovanM's YouTube videos - Phil Strader on calling shots. The first part is on blinking...

Phil Strader Calling Shots

[Biloxi23]

I'm looking for answers as well as I have the same issue. Frustrating. The first shot is consistently low - good enough for USPSA targets but kills me on steel plates.

Just found this after viewing DonovanM's YouTube videos - Phil Strader on calling shots. The first part is on blinking...

Phil Strader Calling Shots

I have the opposite problem. I am fairlt smooth and not too slow out of the holster, and normally get a good hit on teh first plate. Most times I get the second plate,but then everything goes to caca. I think I know what is causing it, and have practiced this plenty but in matches I seem to revert. what I tend to do is lead the transition with my pistol rather than my eyes, so I "get behind" the front sight and never catch up.

[Sin-ster]

I have found, almost exclusively during practice, that when I break the first shot, my brain/body aren't really attuned or prepared to working the gun properly. This is most pronounced in slowfire without a draw, as per shooting indoors just to work on accuracy. In my case, these shots tend to be high-- breaking my wrist up and/or heeling, in anticipation of the recoil. It's like that first shot reminds me, "Hey, this is nothing-- here's what it feels like!" And things go smoothly from there.

I actually find my very best shots coming from the holster. (I figured out why recently, but that's for another thread!) For me, the drawstroke prepares me for the shooting and I worked so hard on NPA and index that I trust that first break every time.

So how could this be pertinent to missing the first plate low? On the first shot, your team might not be tuned into the gun yet, either-- and their timing is off. Managing the recoil/helping the sights recover now turns into pre-ignition twitch, pitching the shot low and off target. It's possible they may also be working the trigger a little too violently on the first shot and then settle in on the other plates.

There are of course plenty of other possibilities, but it's at least something to consider. If it were happening to me, I'd do nothing for the next practice session but one-shot draws to that first target, slowing down as necessary to get the hit every time and then speeding up to a breaking point. Once I settled on a comfortably quick rate, I'd drill it over and over and over again until my eyes started to cross, then begin and/or end the next few sessions on the same thing.

[Steve Anderson]

Have them draw to an acceptable sight picture on the first plate without pulling the trigger.

Have them do this a lot.

They are rushing the first shot, when they need to be rushing the first sight picture.

SA

[Flexmoney]

Have them draw to an acceptable sight picture on the first plate without pulling the trigger.

Have them do this a lot.

They are rushing the first shot, when they need to be rushing the first sight picture.

SA

[spanky]

Have them draw to an acceptable sight picture on the first plate without pulling the trigger.

Have them do this a lot.

They are rushing the first shot, when they need to be rushing the first sight picture.

SA

Well said. (not that it's any surprise).

Edited November 11, 2011 by spanky

[warpspeed]

Part of my practice routine for SC has always been 100 "draw and shoot 1". That first plate is so critical that you cannot afford to miss.

[38supPat]

Have them draw to an acceptable sight picture on the first plate without pulling the trigger.

Have them do this a lot.

They are rushing the first shot, when they need to be rushing the first sight picture.

SA

This^^^

I have seen this and its a common problem when the first shot is a plate. Shooters still do it on paper and poppers but they get away with it and can't figure why they miss plates. It usually manifests as a flinch but it's not really since none of the other shots are flinched. It comes from trying to make the gun go off at the end of the draw staroke and not when an acceptable sight picture appears.

I would try taking the Dot Drill found elsewhere in the forums and change it up. Make a competition oput of it. The drill has 9 dots about 2" in diameter. Set this up at 7m for each person. Have them do one shot draws, no timer, no time limit, one draw and shot per dot. The shooter at the end with the most hits wins.

[benos]

I snagged this from another thread, on establishing "Key Targets":

Bring the concept of establishing "Key Targets" into your mental rehersal.

For every KT: You will mentally pause and shoot and call a center hit.

The first shot is always a KT...

BE there.

[Matt Griffin]

More to the point mechanically I would wager a guess that they are breaking the shot before they have properly transitioned grip strength over to the weak hand, causing a barrel dip from sympathetic movement of the strong hand during the trigger press. Since the draw is begun with the strong hand and no small part of adrenaline they're going to have considerably more grip than they are used to practicing with, which means they are going to move the gun when they manipulate the trigger. Have them do some draws with a pause in the low ready position while their weak hand takes over the heavier work, then present up to the target at the usual speed. I'd bet that they will suddenly start getting what their sights are showing them more often.

Matt

[itchy]

Not sure how your team shoots the stage, but my preference is to shoot it right to left. I prefer to square up to the first target, because for me, it's the most important one. People have different thoughts on this. Some like to find a neutral position, so they don't need to contort so much for any single plate, or for the stop plate. When shooting from the "low ready" like in rimfire, I will still sight in on the first target, then do any necessary "twisting" to point at the starting flag. My routine is to take an unloaded sight picture on the first target, making any stance adjustments. Then I get a sight picture on each target as though I were shooting the stage. Load and sight back on first target, move gun to starting position (pointing at flag), but eyes are still focused on the target (not the starting flag, or the front sight, or the squirrel on the rock downrange.) At the start signal, I'll focus on the front sight as the gun moves to the target.

Because the second plate is close, I get in the bad habit of trigger slapping the second and fourth plate. I like to practice letting the trigger reset just before I get to the second plate, so in essence, I'm holding the trigger pressed to the rear during the transition. I'm constantly telling myself, "feel the reset". (I tend to get slap happy sometimes.)

Practice shooting the stages with a par time, during practice. You'll be surprised how long it feels.

Have the team members develop a routine when they get ready to shoot a stage. They should perform the same routine during practice also.

When I shoot a stage, I don't like to be "coached" in between runs. Some people like feedback in between runs, I personally don't. I prefer to look at the hits on each plate between runs, to see if my focus is incorrect on any target.

I'm not sure if the school keeps the guns for the students, or if SSC brings them to the match for the everyone to use. If the team has their own guns, each student should find the one he/she likes and stick to that one gun. Know where the gun hits at various distances, or know where you need to hold for each target

Good luck!

Seiichi

[anilson]

Thanks for all the help.

We took second and third for mens, and uncontested 1st for all women team.

Thanks again

Adam