Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded in 9mmP

[rhino]

Who else has one?

Are you happy with the accuracy? What kind of groups can you get and with what ammo?

I'm still having trouble with mine ... I can't keep all nine shots in the A zone of an IPSC target at 25 yards, or all nine on paper at 50. Even BigDave can't shoot a very a good group with my gun.

The barrel seems to be fit okay, the trigger is reasonable, and I don't see any dings in the barrel crown.

Any ideas?

[DougBarnes101]

Rhino,

(Slight thread drift)

A guy I shoot Thursday night pistol league with has a Kimber in 9mm and has trouble with the accuracy. With a 45 he is deadly but with the nine he is all over the paper. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast with a nine in a 1911 style pistol.

Sorry no other info than this

[L1011]

A friend of mine has a springfield 1911 in 9mm. I shot it last week. I was surprised

at how light the recoil was and the accuracy. He just started reloading on a 550RL.

I believe he's using WW231 with standard jacketed 115gr bullets.

At about 15 yards I was able to dump the whole mag (9 rds) in the A zone in about

4-5 second. The trigger was smooth as was the mag release.

I'll try to get more info on his loads for you. The highlight of the shooting session

is when my shooting Chrony decided to quit. We both had numerous loads to check

and the Chrony couldn't see Sh*t. I tried everything; new battery, sky screens,

adjusting positions. At the height of my frustration I used his 9mm to put it down

like an old dog who's time had come. Then we used it for target practice with the AR's.

BTW . . . . DNR Sports has the best deal on a new Chrony F-1. $57.54. Here's the

URL: https://www.dnrsports.net/miva/merchant.mv?...y_Code=chronchr

[Patrick Sweeney]

Rhino,

Factory ammo or reloads? Is the ammo accurate in other 9mms? In the old days we found that many 9mm pistols were not accurate due to chamber size. (As with the old Colt .38 Super barrels.)

If you eliminate the ammo as the varialbe, then the barrel is the only thing left. At that point, shoot a group and ship it back to Springfield with the target.

[diehli]

The highlight of the shooting session is when my shooting Chrony decided to quit.... At the height of my frustration I used his 9mm to put it down like an old dog who's time had come.... DNR Sports has the best deal on a new Chrony F-1.

BAHAHAHAHA!!! Now that's a funny coincidence.

DNR... dead... hehehehe.

[rhino]

A guy I shoot Thursday night pistol league with has a Kimber in 9mm and has trouble with the accuracy. With a 45 he is deadly but with the nine he is all over the paper. Perhaps it is the nature of the beast with a nine in a 1911 style pistol.

Sorry no other info than this

That's good information, Doug ... that's the second Kimber 9mm I've heard that has some trouble.

Factory ammo or reloads? Is the ammo accurate in other 9mms? In the old days we found that many 9mm pistols were not accurate due to chamber size. (As with the old Colt .38 Super barrels.)

Pat, it's been three different kinds of factory:

USA value pack 115gr FMJ (worst)

Cor-Bon 140gr truncated cone match target ammo (not quite as bad)

Georgia Arms 124gr Gold Dot JHP (the least offensive, but still bad)

With the Gold Dots, the groups are more than twice the size of what I shoot with any of my .45s with crappy 230gr FMJ.

Is it possible I'm headspacing on the extractor instead of the case mouth? I do know that the accuracy improved a little when BigDave and I installed the new extractor.

[Lee Watne]

I got a new Springfield 1911 Loaded a couple of years ago. The accuracy was not very good with factory ammo in 124 and 115 grain bullets. I also tried 38 super magazines from a couple of different manufacturers. They worked untill I tried to put ten rounds in them, then the top rounds fanned out so much due to case taper I got nose dives with the first round. (Notice how Kalashnikov handles case taper) The extra length of the magazine was no help either. I finally tried Metalform with the filler and settled on nine rounds with better reliability. The 38 super is a straight case, that's probably better for a single stack magazine. Double stack magazines seem to be more tolerant of case taper. My 9X23 double stack SV runs like a watch with 28 rounds in the big magazine.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Rhino,

Take the barrel out and chamber-check some ammo. If it rattles like a maraca, send it back. The gold standard for 9mm ammo is Remington 9mm 147 Match ammo. I've got a Caspian LW Commander that shoots it like a Bianchi Gun. (Not a truly fair comparison, it has a Bar-sto barrel.)

You should be able to expect accuracy out of other caliber 1911s, comparable to that of a standard .45 and over the counter ammo. Based on the two dozen guns in my 1911 book (and probably the next two dozen in Vol 2) if a 1911 pistol doesn't deliver 4 inches or less at 25 yards form a Ransom rest, send it back. (The pistol, not the rest.)

[DougCarden]

Rhino, going throught the same thing with a custom 9x19 barrel. Also try some Federal 9BP, 115jhp. This stuff is scary accurate as well. I had the same problem. If you handload for 9mm, also try some .356 38 super bullets as well. I just got some 121gr ZEROs in to try. Unless the gun does 1in. at 25yds with the super bullets it will be time to get another barrel (trying to get a gun set up for Bianchi) Good luck, I know how frustrating it is. DougC

[Nik Habicht]

Rhino,

Mine is as accurate as the Glocks --- that's why I keep it around. During the month a year that I shoot L-10 with a .45, I use the 9 for steel....

[Tupperware]

Mine wouldn't group at 25 yds either. I'm talking 8" or bigger with any ammo tried. Also had major primer flow issues with Fed 147gr. HSHP, couldn't get through a magazine full. +p and +p+ ammo also had issues with primer flow.

Worst quality in a factory firearm I've ever purchased. Since you only asked about accuracy and ammo I won't rant about the other issues.

[rhino]

Thanks for all of advice, guys. I will check the chamber as soon as I can.

Tupperware ... I also had to replace the extractor. The one that came with the gun had almost no claw on it, and whoever built the gun just put a lot of extra tension on the piece of crap to make it work ... occasionally. Even when spotless-clean, the thing would fail to extract at least once on every magazine, and with the slightest amount of crud, it just got unbearable. BigDave and I replaced it with an STI part and it functions nicely now.

I'm also seeing some primer flow ... I wonder if it's due to the unnecessary titanium firing pin?

The stock trigger pull was probably over 10 lbs. Now it's a little under 3.

The trigger still binds occasionally, especially when I "pin" it trying to shoot groups in slow fire. Part of that was originally from the two magazines that came with the gun that were bulged and wouldn't come out of the gun without a decent tug, but now it's still doing it sometimes with mags that are 100%.

Still, the accuracy problem is the most vexing of all.

Is Springfield going to give me grief because I've changed the extractor, trigger, added an S&A magwell/MS housing, and reduced the trigger pull?

[MBaneACP]

9mm 1911s are a pain in the butt.

My Kimber runs great after the Bruce Gray overhaul, but it's not particularly accurate. Bruce suggested a Bar-Sto is a necessary first step with any 9mm 1911.

Michael B

[Tupperware]

Rhino,

I tried a few different firing pins. One (Ed Brown) was marketed specifically for the Springfield to solve this problem, neither did. My trigger was also horrid. The sear had so many lumps of something that looked like paint that I was surprised the gun worked at all. I spoke with Springfield about mine and they issued a UPS "call tag" to pick it up and repair it. Modifications (trigger job, serious dehorning, recountoured and checkered frontstrap and numerous other minor mods) were said to be a non-issue provided safety was not compromised. I was told they would probably install a firing pin bushing. No promises were made regarding accuracy though they were going to test it and report back. I decided to sell it instead, but can't fault the attitude of their service department.

Mine always ran very well, accuracy aside. I used CMC 10 rd. .38 super mags and feeding, even with HP ammo, was never an issue. My extractor also worked out of the box.

I tried an STI Trojan and found the accuracy to be outstanding, probably the most accurate 1911 I've had my hands on, but it wouldn't run 100%, even with ball ammo.

I'm happy with my new Kimber 5" Target model. Has worked 100% right out of the box, though round count is only around 500 right now. Accuracy seems to be nearly as good as the STI, though not quite.

If I do another 9mm 1911 it will be on a S_I using SVI mags. Haven't found anybody with this combo that isn't happy. Bear1142 built one, maybe he'll give us a detailed report?

[rhino]

I spent my time shooting today and then actually <cough!> cleaning<cough!> my gun since I could see the slide slowing down during the IDPA match today. I'm going to check the chamber on my 9mm in the next couple of days.

[Gun Phan]

Mine was brand new out of the box and after about 500 rds, I discovered a problem that seems like primer flow. Although I shoot the same load in my 6" Caspian and did not have primer flow problem. It got so bad that after about 20 rds, I would get miss fires and have to clean the firing pin pocket .

I let a Springfield rep. looked at it and he stated there was a problem with the firring pin hole being to big. I sent the gun back and they repaired it. The gun shoots OK with 147 JHP. I have Aristocrats sights installed for PPC at 25 at 50 yds. About 2" at 25. 50 yds is another story (still working on it) .

[Bill H]

My Springfield 9mm wouldn't group well either. I sent it to BarSto for a barrel and it seems MUCH better in the limited amount of shooting I have done since getting it back. The stock barrel had a bunch of freebore. I couldn't even seat 150gr bullets out far enough to touch the rifling. It is like they cut the freebore for a 38 super.

HTH

Bill

[rhino]

It is like they cut the freebore for a 38 super.

Hmmm ... maybe they DID.

I wonder ... what if they're doing just one barrel and cutting the chambers to different lengths?

That could explain quite a bit ...

[Joe D]

I had a SA 9mm a couple of years ago. It was very accurate with just about anything I ran through it. It really liked the 147 gr West Coast bullets with 3.5 gr of Titegroup. I loaded the bullets to an OAL of 1.180". I could get sub 2" groups at 25 yds. with this load. The friend that bought this gun gets equally good groups with a 125 gr lead bullet.

I was a little lucky with the barrel in this gun. The barrels that SA was buying then must have been oversize match barrels. You could see where the "gunsmith", and I use that term very generously, at SA ground down the upper barrel lug recess with what appeared to be a hand grinder. Fortunately he missed a spot that allowed the barrel to go into a very positive lockup.

I just never liked the way the gun recoiled. My .40 Kimber shoots softer.

[rhino]

Okay ... the story gets weirder.

Tonight BigDave and I shot in an intra-family league shoot with the D-Lo family and friends. After shooting four USPSA stages (twice each), we went to 75 yards and tried to hit some popper-like rectangular steel targets (about 6-8 inches wide) at 75 yards.

Given how my 9mm Springfield groups at 25 yards, I thought I would have no chance of hitting the steel, except perhaps by random.

On my first try, it took five shots, but I actually hit the steel and knocked it down. Then on my second run, I did it on my second shot. On my third run, I did it on my first shot from the holster.

Is it possible I was just having crappy days when I've shot groups with this gun? Obviously if I can hit a target at that distance (and call the shot), the gun must be capable of better accuracy than I have observed. Or might it just have been a fluke?

[Patrick Sweeney]

You quesiton your ability to shoot groups? How un-manly of you. If you aren't testing from a Ransom rest, or in the hands of a GM, you're testing you as much as you are testing the gun.

[rhino]

That's true, but here's the thing. I let BigDave shoot it too, and while he's not a GM (yet), he shoots some damn good groups. It's what we've been practicing lately and he's getting really good. With his S-V blaster, he routinely gets a little group in the X-ring of an NRA D-2 (Bianchi Cup) target at 25 yards, off hand. So he's pretty much a human ransom rest as far as I am concerned.

When he shot my 9mm, he did just slightly better than I did ... so I figured that it's probably something about the gun.

But now ... maybe we're wrong! AGAIN!

[BigDave]

That's true, but here's the thing. I let BigDave shoot it too, and while he's not a GM (yet), he shoots some damn good groups. It's what we've been practicing lately and he's getting really good. With his S-V blaster, he routinely gets a little group in the X-ring of an NRA D-2 (Bianchi Cup) target at 25 yards, off hand. So he's pretty much a human ransom rest as far as I am concerned.

Rhino embellishes just a bit...

There is just something odd about that gun. Rhino, there is not a damn thing wrong with you shooting groups.

Is it possible that they gun could be out of time, just a little? I'm taking a stab here.

The only other thing, other than the gun, that comes to mind is that you might be anticipating 45 ACP major recoil and you're over anticipating the recoil in your wrists and forearms. But, there is part of me that thinks that cannot be the case b/c I've been swaping between major and minor in my SV without the same effect.

Rhino, check your PM's.

[slughammer]

IIRC Springfields accuracy guarantee is 3 1/2" at 25 yards. After dozens of sandbag fired loads, I determined my 9mm Loaded was just not capable. SA customer service gave me a shipping number and it cost me nothing to send the gun back to them.

In a concise letter to them I pointed out several problems with the gun, foremost of which was the accuracy. Second was the softness of the hammer hooks, I was able to cut mine with one swipe of a dull file.

SA machined the frame and installed a ramped barrel. Several hundreds of rounds later I determined that the gun did now meet their guarantee. But 3 1/2" at 25 is not good enough for me (or for you for a Bianchi gun). So I now have a fitted Nowlin Barrel and I'm getting closer to the 1" mark.

In hind sight, the best advice to give (if you can reload 9mm) is to buy 100 124gr XTP's and try some with fast, medium and slow burn rate powders.

If you are going to rebarrel, about 50% of the people I know have gone to 38super to get away from their feed problems.

Also, the primer flow is absolutely due to the TI firing pin. I tried the steel pin out of another gun and the problem goes away. I e-mailed back and fourth with customer service at SA until they sent me a steel pin. My TI pin fit the hole perfect, so does the steel pin; steel pin = more mass and the problem goes away.

[rhino]

Thanks, SH!

BigDave is suggesting going with .38 Super if I rebarrel too. Heck, I could keep the 9mm barrel for cheapo blasting and IDPA matches, then switch to the .38 super for more serious accuracy stuff.

And since I am averse to reloading, I could get Armscor .38 super FMJ by the case for not that much more than 9mm...