Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded in 9mmP

[TRG65]

There are many things I could complain about with my springfield 9. The fitting on the gun as mentioned before was awful. The bushing to barrel and bushing to slide fit was so bad I could move either the barrel or the bushing independently when the gun was locked up. The gun was reasonably tight when I got it now (12,000 rds later); it rattles when shaken when it is locked up. The trigger is horrible, and the stock primer pin also caused primer flow for me also.

All this being said, it was always, from day one, a tack driver. I've run it w/ 115's and 147's, both worked fine. With the new front spacer 9mm mags, it runs ok. But I don't really like running ok, I want running all the time (just like everyone else on this board) so I shoot my G-34.

As mentioned earlier, the freebore is incredible. I loaded my rounds with a 147 zero JHP to 1.181. This was the max length of the mag, not of the chamber. These rounds were not yet touching the rifling.

[rhino]

If I use the right magazines, mine works just fine too. It just won't shoot for crap.

Ugh. I should have save my pennies and gone with an STI.

[twix]

Yes, so why keep throwing more $ at it?

I recently bought a .40 single stack on a whim and the next day traded it for an STI frame and slide. Gary Groh is building me a Limited blaster. You could do the same with your 9mm if you really want an STI SS. And you could have it custom built for you for about the same money it would cost you to by a factory gun. Same guy that built the Range Babe's blaster, need I say more sir?

TomB

Edited to add: And I have to admit it was a real kick talking with Gary and designing MY gun. You know, "Do you like this or that? Really! I never thought of that." I kind of like these, what do you think? We ended up measuring ambi widths, sights, triggers, etc. Very cool.

[slughammer]

Ugh.  I should have save my pennies and gone with an STI.

Yup, would have been cheaper and easier on the sanity.

Mine almost always runs more work going to happen in that department. Ran fine in practices and at a steel match and then jammed on the barricade at an NRA action pistol match. I lost 3 shots and that is when my sanity left.

[BigDave]

Well, SA 9mm 1911's got a lot of people who pioneered this sport (including our host) a long damn way in the world of the Steel Challenge and early IPSC/USPSA. Of course, they (Brian, Rob (still), Burner, J. Michael, John, Bill) were not using off the shelf guns either.

I think a rebarrel and bushing job in that will take you right up to the cost of a STI. And b/c I own an STI SS, it doesn't mean it didn't have its share of quirks and things I wanted changed. Rhino, every bug, except the accuracy has been addressed with that gun. It has a great slide/frame fit, good trigger, and is now functionally reliable. Get a good barrel/bushing in that and that will be great gun. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, eh?

OTOH, building a ground up 1911 is certainly an entertaining idea. A Caspian chassis would be uber sweet, and getting a smith to work with you and spec'ing it out for you and your unique hand/finger set up would be gravy.

The simple solution, and the least costly for you, would be to call up SA, tell the gun shoots like she-it and have them do what they can. After that, if it isn't what you want it to be (for what you have in it), then you can either dump it and reinvest, or change what you think needs changed.

[Bill H]

As an update of my SA 1911 in 9mm that I sent to Barsto for a barrel-----The slide was very tight locking and unlocking when I first got it. I figured some rounds would break it in and smooth it up. Nope. After about 700 rounds it was the same.

I was at a well known gunsmths today picking up a refurbished race gun and I showed him the 9. After disasembly there were numerous problems with the fitting. One was an egg shaped hole in the link. I expected much better from Barsto. I left the gun to have the barrel refitted the right way.

Yes I could have called Barsto and explained the situation but I had lost confidence in them and would have to have paid another next day air shippment. Just a heads up. I have only heard good about Barsto but then that is my luck.

[rhino]

Update ... yesterday we finally shot some groups from a handheld rest at a measured 20 yards. The best I could do was a little over four inches using Blazer 115gr FMC and over five with the USA 115gr FMJ from the "value pack." That was for nine shots fired, throwing out called flyers.

That's the best this gun has done, but it still sucks.

So now I have some "real" information to give Springfield when I call them to see if they can do anything about it without charging me an arm and a leg. Maybe they can cut me a decent deal on fitting a new match grade barrel in their custom shop. If not, then we're getting a BarSto or Kart barrel and bushing fitted by someone else.

[Joe D]

Sorry you are having such a problem with your SA. I could tell you a nightmare story I had dealing with SA. In the end SA refunded the money I paid for the gun.

Just have a competent gunsmith install a Kart barrel.

Another path is to sell the gun and buy a 1911 in .40. It is almost as cheap to reload for and much easier to make run. A .40 really is softer shooting at the 125-140 PF level.

[michael_aos]

And since I am averse to reloading, I could get Armscor .38 super FMJ by the case for not that much more than 9mm...

I was going to throw in a plug for .38S also. My Springfield Mil-Spec is awesome. I've been toying with adding a 9mm barrel as inexpensive .38S is hard to find.

Where can you currently find good prices on Armscor? I bought a couple cases from KY-Imports ($110/case) this Winter, but they're out with no plans of restocking.

Mike

[rhino]

Another path is to sell the gun and buy a 1911 in .40. It is almost as cheap to reload for and much easier to make run. A .40 really is softer shooting at the 125-140 PF level.

That's a good idea, but it defeats my purpose of being able to shoot cheap, factory 9mm ammunition.

If I change calibers, it will be .38 super.

Where can you currently find good prices on Armscor? I bought a couple cases from KY-Imports ($110/case) this Winter, but they're out with no plans of restocking.

Good question ... that was the source I had in mind, but I haven't priced any for a few months.

Aren't you a regular on the 1911 Forums too?

I'm rhino465 when I show my horn there.

[Harmon]

Having shot several (3 or so) springfield 1911s, i havent had any accuracy issues with them, one thing i have noticed, ball factory ammo is seldom as accurate as good handloads. shooting rem umc 115 fmjs out of a marlin camp carbine gives 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 25 yards, this is a fixed barrel rifle that will put my pet handload into sub one inch groups at 25 yards, i use small rifle primer, 4.3 grains of accurate arms number 2 and a 115 montana gold FMJ or JHP, the JHP being the most accurate. with cheap factory ammo not being very accurate out of a fixed barrel rifle, i cant see it being too accurate in a automatic pistol.

thank springfield for putting a part in there that you can replace instead of the series 80 alternative for drop safety. throw the Ti firing pin in the trash, get a EGW oversize pin, no more primer flow.

having shot several 1911s, i am glad i bought a glock 34, i seem to shoot it better and with good handloads from a ransom rest, it will poke em in sub one inch groups. even with winchester value pack it comes in around 2.25 inches. I havent really found any 9mm that likes remington ammo,

all the folks i know that have springfield 9mm 1911s shoot cci blazer, partly because they get it for 4 bux a box.

i would bite the bullet and start loading the 9, or stop dont worry about pinpoint accuracy.

IDPA and uspsa, shots seldom are longer than 20 yds, and the IDPA A zone is 8 inches around,

I just think you are expecting too much from your gun/ammo combination.

one thing i never figured out is why some folks will spend 2000 dollars on a match grade AR15, then go to the gunshows and buy a case of the cheapest ammo they can find and be dissappointed when the gun does no better than 9 inches at 100 yds.

If handloading is totally out of the question, try to find a factory load that shoots the best, CCI winchester and wolf all do very well in my glock, but my glock aint no bianchi gun.

[rhino]

UPDATE!

I made the journey to Neil Keller's shop today Kustom Ballistics to retrieve my Springfield Armory 1911A1 Loaded 9mm pistola.

Here is what I had him do to it:

1. Refit the barrell (I think it required some welding)

2. Fit new bushing

3. Fix problem with trigger getting stuck/mags not dropping

4. Narrow front sight to 0.090 inches wide

The new fit of the barrel is outstanding. It locks into battery like the proverbial bank vault door. He chose to use the new S-V bushing, which seems to show a lot of promise. The front sight is exactly the way I like it, and the tweaking he did to the trigger bow and the slots in which it rides eliminated the problems and improved and already excellent trigger pull.

I was able to test fire on the way home, putting about 135 rounds of UMC and USA 115gr FMJ through it. Function was 100% and now the gun cycles very, very smoothely! Before (and BigDave can attest to this), the gun "cycled funny" when you fired it. I'm not sure what was wrong with the barrel fit, but it just had a weird feel when the gun fired and cycled. That is no longer the case!

And now the key news ... it shoots really, really well now. I was able to get it sighted-in and I was shooting single ragged holes at 7-10 yards. At 25 I was able to keep them in the inside 2/3 of a 5-inch shoot'n'see target, so I expect it to do really well from a rest. I didn't measure, but I'd estimate that the group size is roughly half what it was before.

Summary: Neil did a fantastic job, he did it quickly, and his rates are very reasonable. I am now very happy with this gun because it is far more accurate and still reliable! I'm giddy like a little schoolgirl!

Unfortunately the NRA Action Pistol season is over. On the bright side, I'm going to use it (starting tomorrow) to shoot ESP in IDPA, Limited-10 in USPSA on Sunday, and steel challenge next Saturday.

Woo-hoo!

[DougCarden]

Awesome Rhino! I am happy for you! Now get some access to a ransom rest and craft your deadly accurate loads for Bianchi for next year! DougC

[rhino]

I'm going to hyp-mo-tize BigDave and get him to do the loading for me. Heh.

[EricW]

Well Bubba, it sounds like you're all out of excuses now....

[rhino]

Curiously, that's what El David Grande said on the telephone this afternoon.

I shot ESP in today's IDPA match for the first time (other than the classifier). It was a lot of fun. More than once I found myself "waiting" for the front sight to come back down, but then realized it never went "up" in the first place! Once I get used to shooting this thing, I'm going to be going faster on a more consistent basis.

It ran like a top through the whole match! With a little work, patience, and trips to the gunsmith, I think the dog has become a keeper.

I'm going to shoot it in Limited10 tomorrow. I'll just have to remember to shoot all As.

I also have no idea whether or not my 10rd .38 super mags will work the way the gun is currently configured. I shall learn the answer tomorrow during the match.

[rhino]

Looks like I did okay in IDPA ... first in ESP and fourth overall (36 shooters, I think).

Sunday was educational. I shot through the match in both Limited10 and Limited. I learned quite a bit, but the most obvious was that "seeing what I need to see" is completely different with this gun than it is with the .45. I had probably fifteen complete misses counting both division for the match, which is inexcusable. I was pushing a little in some cases, but in others I have no idea where the rounds went.

It's possible (unlikely) that one or two were doubles that just didn't get counted. On the classifier (Tight Squeeze), I put three rounds in the same hole (you could barely make out three radii) and one about half an inch from that hole in the close target. I was taking my time (14+_ seconds!) and the gun will put 'em where I'm pointin' if I do my part.

The 10rd .38 super magazines work really well. Now I can load 10+1 instead of 9+1 if I want. I'll have to remember not to mix and match in IDPA, though.

Now ... the downside. The gun locked open early three times during the match , meaning that it locked open with 2-3 rounds left in the magazine. My .45 used to do that too, and we learned that the slide stop was out of spec where the follower was supposed to hit it when empty. I looked at the slide stop in the 9mm gun last night and there are brass marks on there, which is a telltale sign that it's oversized and needs to be reduce a bit. I'm going to get that done tomorrow afternoon when I visit one my friendly local gunsmiths.

Overall I continue to be very pleased with the gun! The three malfunctions should be a thing of the past once I get the slide stop fixed. Then everything will be well in Rhinoville!

I'm worried about going back to the .45 now, though. It's going to be like a bomb going off in my hands by comparison!

[BigDave]

I'm worried about going back to the .45 now, though. It's going to be like a bomb going off in my hands by comparison!

You know you don't have to shoot that howitzer PF ammo, don't you?

[Patrick Sweeney]

You don't? Then I shot a 194.2 PF at the Nationals for nothing?

[rhino]

Hah! You had at least two more inches of barrel on your Barney Fife gun than I do on my trsuty Kimber, ya big shootoff winnin' goober!