Reliablity?

[Iggy42]

So I am still in the market for a Limited Division gun and one I keep looking at the the P16-40. What worries me though is that I keep hearing horror stories about Paras QC and reliablity. If I am going to spend that on a gun I need something that will go bang everytime without going to a smith first.

Springfield is running that free mag promotion and I have to admit I am looking for someone to talk me into a Para over a 5.25XDM in .40 (when they come out). Especially since the xdm starts with a lower sticker price.

[yoshidaex]

Both good guns but I would choose a 1911 type trigger over a striker fired trigger any day.

The para is good but does need a bit to make it great.

Not sure if it's still in there but I would get rid of the series 80 parts and the PXT extractor.

[Mark R]

I wouldn't just arbitrarily replace the PXT extractor just to replace it. try it first and see if it works good for you. I still have mine in the gun and it works 100%..and my Para P16SX is about 4 years old now. I did however replace the trigger group with Cylinder&Slide 5 piece drop-in kit to give it a better and lighter trigger. Mine is 100% reliable.

Now watch the next time i use it...hope I didn't put a curse on it.

[yoshidaex]

I wouldn't just arbitrarily replace the PXT extractor just to replace it. try it first and see if it works good for you. I still have mine in the gun and it works 100%..and my Para P16SX is about 4 years old now. I did however replace the trigger group with Cylinder&Slide 5 piece drop-in kit to give it a better and lighter trigger. Mine is 100% reliable.Now watch the next time i use it...hope I didn't put a curse on it.

I'll agree to the try it first before replacing comment.

Unfortunately most of the people who post here using a Para end up replacing the PXT because they can't get it to work 100% of the time.

[mike3232]

I have to vote for Para as well. Just got mine set up for limited. I would def try the extractor before changing it. Mine has been flawless. Plus you have the added weight of a metal gun.

[Iggy42]

So based on what I am reading pretty much most folks are saying its going to have to go to a smith to get it working right. Not something that I can really use right out of the box. I would plan on a magwell ASAP, but what I am really looking for is something that I can pick up out of the box use it for Limited and upgrade as I go until I can afford a good quality Caspian build (one thing the Para does have it that it is an all metal design, not big on the polymer but I an work with it)

[n1guess]

i second the caspian built

[Iggy42]

i second the caspian built

Yeah if I had the cash I would be all over it like dead on Elvis, but in the mean time I am looking for something I can use for Limited pretty much out of the box that will feed anything I give it.

[elynch2007]

I would recommend the Para if you get a stainless limited, then put on a DP magwell. It will come with 2 mags, just get a couple more and 3 DP bases. You will have one of the best low end all steel guns in limited. Mine have ran at very near 100% over several years. My Para's have been a limited LDA now with around 20,000 round down the tube and a PXT Limited with around 5,000 round through it. Both still run great without changing any parts or springs.

If I was to spend the money to build a custom gun for limited, then I would step up to a STI or SV. You will have the same amount of dollars invested.

Edited September 22, 2011 by elynch2007

[Trail3]

I just got a new P18/9 and had problems at the start with the extractor. Ordered the EGW sleeve and their extractor,

gave the gun to my gunsmith to work it over for my IDPA competition gun. I love my P16/40, pre PXT extractor.

Living in California, we are limited to what guns are on the "approved roster list".

[JFlowers]

I have an old pre-Power Extractor TL model P16/40. It is a beater gun - nothing special, rough finish, not super tuned - but it runs very well. My gunsmith likes the old Paras but is not real happy with the new ones.

[jordonhurd]

I only have a few thousand through my P16, and it runs like a champ. Even with the power extractor I have had no problems.

[leas327]

My friend recently purchased a new 16-40. It took around 1500 rounds for it to smooth up and run reliably. After that it has ran well. He has probably put 4-5k through it. The only problem he has had since was that the rear sight would loosen up when firing. A little blue loctite fixed that. He is happy with it.

[Parastang]

Iggy,

First off read all of this. If you read the 1st half you wont like it.....

I have a P14-45. It is a year old and I have managed to run at least 4000 rounds threw it in the past year. I do 2 or 3 maybe 4 combat shoots a month if I am lucky.

It has been a love hate relationship with this gun and primarily with the company. I got mine because A LOT of guys at my home range were running 40cal Para's. I shot theirs and liked them. I like the double stack. I love 1911's.

Now with that being said my first issue was when I lost the pin out of the rear adjustable site. Simple easy fix. Go to hardware store find a roll pin and slide it in. Well I called Para and asked for a new one. Now I know there is likely some rule here about bashing a company (moderator keep reading). I was told that the part is not made by them and its not their problem PERIOD. I went around for 20min with them. A friend of mine hounded them for me for another three months. Finally we got a $2 pin sent to me. VERY RUDE people.

Next came the NRA convention in Pittsburgh. Great show. If you ever get the chance to go to one GO! I met the VP of Para. Asked him if they would replace the pin. Again I was told in no certain terms would they replace the pin. They do not make the site so its not THIER problem. I said Ya but its a $1000 gun you built and picked the rear site. I was again told / asked why they should replace it. I was baffled.

I stayed the coarse. I had to. I could not afford an STI. I began reloading and again had problems. I got a better reloader and things got better. I tuned the rounds to the gun. I changed the guide rod spring and lightened the loads. Shot really smooth. Then I stripped the gun down and polished all the rough stuff. If it rubbed I started with a heavy grit and worked it down to a very fine grit. It’s like a mirror on those spots. Gun runs SUPER now!

Two weeks ago I broke the extractor. Para has their own style. Why would you change something that has worked for 100 years I do not know. It makes sence what they did just the materials they used are junk. So I made the dreaded call to Para. I was asked my name and figured this is where the alarms and RED flags go off in the service department. NOPE! The guy asked me my address serial number on the gun and said it would be out that day. Its been one week. Still no extractor. But I will wait.

You can replace their extractor with the standard 1911 extractor. But you need a sleeve adaptor. It’s a $20+ part. Looks like it will work. Still going to wait for the factory part.

Para has seemed to start to turn the ship around. For a while it looked like they were sailing off the map of sanity. I subscribe to a few of their groups on the net and on Facebook. Here in the past few months they have suddenly been sending stuff out about the company,

SO maybe they are making the necessary changes. I will still tell my story for a while.

I don’t plan on dumping my gun. I learned to have extra parts. I was told this is something you should do with any gun. So I have a 1911 spring kit on standby. The finish on the gun is questionable. But I have put it threw the wringer and it has held up well. I scratched it. SO WHAT! Its NOT a show piece. It’s a competition gun. I added a Dawson Precision Mag Well to the base. Next is a lower front site since I shoot a bit low.

Its been love hate. Right now I like it. Guys in my club have had thiers for YEARS. If Springfield had a GOOD double stack I would buy one.

Good Luck,

Jason

[ParaGunner]

Get the para

[chirpy]

I bought a P16 out of the Classifieds here. Didn't work well until I started loading to 1.2 and then it was 100%

Richard

[Iggy42]

I bought a P16 out of the Classifieds here. Didn't work well until I started loading to 1.2 and then it was 100%

Richard

Yeah that is a problem for since I do not own my own reloading setup (yet) nor do I always have the luxury of ordering from AAA or DC. I certanly want to, but my checkbook often has other ideas.

[jcc7x7]

16-40 bought this spring and shot it all thru the summer and now into the fall without a problem. Replaced hammer and sear with a S&S kit and put a Dawson magwell on it with Dawson base pads. It will hold 21 40S&W, plus one in the chamber and run, mine are loaded at 1.190 but it shoots factory magtec or Amer. Eagle. just fine.

It runs fine

I own an STI eagle and it runs great also but I shoot the Para better so I'm thinking of selling the STI that is all set up with 2 Dawson tuned mags and 3 home tuned mags. I also put the S&S hammer and sear kit in it.

I'd give the para a go and think you'll like it.

Only thing I'd like is more after market triggers for the gun so we had more of a choice with that!

Jcc7x7

[seymour1]

I bought one of the PXT P16-40's right after they first hit the market in 2005 for a limited gun.I put about 2k to 3k rnds through it and was having some FTF/FTE. I had some minor tuning done to the extractor hook and since then the gun runs without any problems with about 5k-7k rnds on the original power extractor now. I've change to a Doug Koenig hammer & EGW sear so that the is lighter and shorter reset than factory. I shoot my Para when I want to take a break from my Glocks. The Para's are a nice gun to start with for the budget minded.

[RPM8shot]

I purchased my P14-45 in 1995. It has a Bar-Sto Bull bbl, S&A Magwell, Accu-railed, STi trigger, SV hammer and sear, 2.25lbs, 19LB IMSI main spring, 14lb IMSI recoil spring. Bomar sight. I shot this pistol for 10years. The factory extractor broke at 45K rounds (My fault I was putting rounds in the barrel and dropping the slide on it). Now has an Ed Brown extractor, Pistol has 80K+ rounds. Nothing but great things to say about Para.

Randy

USPSA A27966

2004 SWPL L-10 Winner

Edited October 25, 2011 by RPM8shot

[wackodacko]

Did you end up buying the Para? I love my Para, but if you are not experienced in 1911 work, or dont want to spend time/money on a gunsmith, then i would say to go with something else.

I had an old P14-45 which I took the frame of, then put in a Caspian slide and a 40 bull barrel. i also built it up to make it a long dust cover (ala STI) and put in a tungsten guide rod. it is heavy, but has almost zero recoil, which i love. i can run 175PF and it feels like 160 in a regular 1911. My trigger is a koenig, i love it, but I am thinking of getting an STI because they have a really nice contingency program where I could have won several hundred if not a thousand dollars already, had I been shooting an STI the past year.

Anyway, my main beef with para is the mags. You really have to tune it to get it working flawlessly. Its best friends are my Dremel and sandpaper. I can fit 21 rounds, changeable, with the dawson extended basepad, wolf springs and a dawson follower. With my ipsc legal basepads ("fit in the box") i can fit 19 changeable, which is 1 or 2 more than most STI folks.

I also have an XDM with a powder river drop in trigger kit - works fantastic for a cheap gun, it runs well out of the box but you still have to put in the drop in trigger to be competetive. The new XDM 5.25" is awesome, i would get that in 40 and run production minor on it, it makes big holes, easy to see.

[dixondave]

Bought a new 16-40 Limited last February and have over 6,000 rounds shot through it and use it for USPSA Limited. Out of the box it had a 12 lb trigger and would not run. All kinds of failures like FTE FTF. After about 500 rounds it started making it through a mag without failure and got better and better. It was still impossible to shoot accurately with the heavy trigger pull. Sent it to the local smith and told him to give it a trigger job and replace the sloppy fitting plastic trigger with a Guncraft aluminum trigger. Wow, now I had a 3.5 lb trigger without all the slop. Soon after I removed all the series 80 parts and installed a spacer now the trigger is now about 2.5 lb. All was good until recently it started failing to eject (FTE), and everything was going so well. Carefully looked over the gun and found the ejector was loose so replaced it with one from Dawsons but that did not solve the problem. Took apart the extractor and noticed the plunger inside was mushroomed, Para sent me some replacement plungers but that did not help. Finally asked Para to send a whole new extractor which they did with no problem and things have got a lot better. Shot a match on 12/11/2011 and had one FTE. The gun was not cleaned before the match, my bad. So stripped the gun bare cleaned every inch of it lubed and took it to the range yesterday. Shot 100 rounds with one FTE. OK it is a lot better one round out of 100 is not bad but a FTE is devastating during competition since you have to drop the mag to clear the gun and then reload, really ruins a stage. I think I am done with f***ing around with the power extractor and my next step is going to be to install and EGW HD extractor with sleeve. EGW is currently out of stock on the 40 S&W extractor but is going to call as soon as they get back from being heat treated, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

[bruised lee]

Did you end up buying the Para? I love my Para, but if you are not experienced in 1911 work, or dont want to spend time/money on a gunsmith, then i would say to go with something else.

I had an old P14-45 which I took the frame of, then put in a Caspian slide and a 40 bull barrel. i also built it up to make it a long dust cover (ala STI) and put in a tungsten guide rod. it is heavy, but has almost zero recoil, which i love. i can run 175PF and it feels like 160 in a regular 1911. My trigger is a koenig, i love it, but I am thinking of getting an STI because they have a really nice contingency program where I could have won several hundred if not a thousand dollars already, had I been shooting an STI the past year.

Anyway, my main beef with para is the mags. You really have to tune it to get it working flawlessly. Its best friends are my Dremel and sandpaper. I can fit 21 rounds, changeable, with the dawson extended basepad, wolf springs and a dawson follower. With my ipsc legal basepads ("fit in the box") i can fit 19 changeable, which is 1 or 2 more than most STI folks.

I also have an XDM with a powder river drop in trigger kit - works fantastic for a cheap gun, it runs well out of the box but you still have to put in the drop in trigger to be competetive. The new XDM 5.25" is awesome, i would get that in 40 and run production minor on it, it makes big holes, easy to see.

Jade! Just sent you PM through FB asking about your para set up. Can't believe I'm going to find the answer here an hour later.

[dixondave]

Bought a new 16-40 Limited last February and have over 6,000 rounds shot through it and use it for USPSA Limited. Out of the box it had a 12 lb trigger and would not run. All kinds of failures like FTE FTF. After about 500 rounds it started making it through a mag without failure and got better and better. It was still impossible to shoot accurately with the heavy trigger pull. Sent it to the local smith and told him to give it a trigger job and replace the sloppy fitting plastic trigger with a Guncraft aluminum trigger. Wow, now I had a 3.5 lb trigger without all the slop. Soon after I removed all the series 80 parts and installed a spacer now the trigger is now about 2.5 lb. All was good until recently it started failing to eject (FTE), and everything was going so well. Carefully looked over the gun and found the ejector was loose so replaced it with one from Dawsons but that did not solve the problem. Took apart the extractor and noticed the plunger inside was mushroomed, Para sent me some replacement plungers but that did not help. Finally asked Para to send a whole new extractor which they did with no problem and things have got a lot better. Shot a match on 12/11/2011 and had one FTE. The gun was not cleaned before the match, my bad. So stripped the gun bare cleaned every inch of it lubed and took it to the range yesterday. Shot 100 rounds with one FTE. OK it is a lot better one round out of 100 is not bad but a FTE is devastating during competition since you have to drop the mag to clear the gun and then reload, really ruins a stage. I think I am done with f***ing around with the power extractor and my next step is going to be to install and EGW HD extractor with sleeve. EGW is currently out of stock on the 40 S&W extractor but is going to call as soon as they get back from being heat treated, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

It has been awhile since I updated my post and this is what happened. A Para representative named Travis Tomasie contacted me the next day after he read my post and informed me that Para has EGW HD Extractors designed to fit the PXT hole with no sleeve needed and he would like to send me one free of charge. It arrived at my door in less than a week. It is a thing of simplistic beauty. Ater installation I checked the tension and it was way too light so I put a bend in it with the Weigand tool and got it to where it felt perfect. Took it to the range and shot 130 rounds through it with ZERO FTE's. The next week shot a six stage USPSA match with it (191 rounds) with ZERO FTE's. I love my Para 16-40 Limited. Thank you Para Ordnance and Mr. Tomasie for their time and effort.

Respectfully,

Dixondave

[PINMAN44]

EGW parts will make any gun run.