TRUbor9 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport! Classes are meaningless in IPSC. You compete head to head in your division. Also, IPSC requires at least 5 competitors in a category before it is recognized. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Wow, only 1 junior at a Level 3 match is not just sad- that is scary! The Florida Open always has a lot of foreign IPSC shooters and seems like a lot of them have to shoot Uncl. I assumed that was since few are classified in USPSA. Edited July 24, 2011 by Tim/GA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUbor9 Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport!Classes are meaningless in IPSC. You compete head to head in your division. Also, IPSC requires at least 5 competitors in a category before it is recognized.Later,Chuck Thank You for that explination1 no one could give a real good reason like that they just shruged it off Wow, only 1 junior at a Level 3 match is not just sad- that is scary! The Florida Open always has a lot of foreign IPSC shooters and seems like a lot of them have to shoot Uncl. I assumed that was since few are classified in USPSA. ya but its not as fun for juniors the way they seemed to treat me I wouldnt really want to come back... Only a few people on my squad would even talk to me, one was swedish but had lived &started shooting in the states and the other was from norway... one of the RO's seemed to have it out for me and the md was full of himself... O.o I believe they really need to make it fun for the juniors since the sport is official in the country as of this year and has only managed to double in 4 years. Better sportsmanship is a must and better promotion. I did get a reshoot on the stage with the RO that was being difficult and the squad following mine was really nice they even clapped after i finished the stage! thats how they all should be! Edited July 24, 2011 by TRUbor9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Springthorpe Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The same thing happened to my son while shooting the Nationals in 2009. He was a D shooter, but with only 3 shooters in that group, not even a mention. I understand the need to limited prizes to classes with only so many people, but a simple recognition during the final ceremony goes a long way to reward the efforts of shooters that did win their class. The lack of that recognition also goes a long way, by making a very poor impression of the national organization. I think recognition could be given in these cases, without giving a prize. They do it a the local level. Just a thought for ways to improve the impression that our younger shooters have of the organization. Dwight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The same thing happened to my son while shooting the Nationals in 2009. He was a D shooter, but with only 3 shooters in that group, not even a mention. I understand the need to limited prizes to classes with only so many people, but a simple recognition during the final ceremony goes a long way to reward the efforts of shooters that did win their class. The lack of that recognition also goes a long way, by making a very poor impression of the national organization. I think recognition could be given in these cases, without giving a prize. They do it a the local level. Just a thought for ways to improve the impression that our younger shooters have of the organization. Dwight This is an argument USPSA has struggled with for sometime. Local/Level One matches are free to recognize anyone they wish. But the higher level matches do have restrictions on what can be recognized. Yes it sucks for the shooter who doesn't get recognized. But recognizing everyone for everything would diminish the efforts of those who were official winners. Take a hypothetical Nationals match with 35 Revolver shooters, 1 GM, 2 M, 1 A, 15 B, 10 C and 6 D. How would you feel if you came in 2nd overall at the match as a B class shooter to have 1st M, 1st A recognized the same as you. The goal wasn't to denigrate anyone who shot well but to make the title of 1st whatever worth something. We've literally had class or categories with one or two people at a major match. If someone says they won first B, or High Lady, at a major match, it should mean something, not that they were the only participant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) Deleted Edited July 26, 2011 by shootingchef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 There is classification in IPSC and it could be used to recognize first in class at the large matches, but this practice didn't seem used anywhere outside of North America. I'd suggest to contact your rgional director (ie USPSA president) and ask him to bring this up at IPSC AGM in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapzter Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 ya but its not as fun for juniors the way they seemed to treat me I wouldnt really want to come back... Only a few people on my squad would even talk to me, one was swedish but had lived &started shooting in the states and the other was from norway... Was this match held in Sweden? If that was the case, perhaps the other shooters were shy about speaking to you in english, given that it is not their native language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Are you shooting for fun or for the recognition? I've been on great squads and not so great squads (for one reason or another) but I certainly wouldn't even begin to blame that on the sport, venue, match, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) The same thing happened to my son while shooting the Nationals in 2009. He was a D shooter, but with only 3 shooters in that group, not even a mention. I understand the need to limited prizes to classes with only so many people, but a simple recognition during the final ceremony goes a long way to reward the efforts of shooters that did win their class. The lack of that recognition also goes a long way, by making a very poor impression of the national organization. I think recognition could be given in these cases, without giving a prize. They do it a the local level. Just a thought for ways to improve the impression that our younger shooters have of the organization. Dwight I disagree with feeling that there should automatically be any recognition as a whole, for youngest/oldest,etc. If there is any recognition given, I am not opposed, but I do not think that it should be expected. This is one of the problems I have with society today. When I played base ball I was in the last place team, I got a very small trophy, while the teams that placed had considerably larger trophies and the team that won overall had a ridiculus trophy. My friends and I worked hard through the winter and spring to earn one of those large trophies. Now it seems that all that participate get the same reward whether they worked for it or not. JMHO. Appreciate any recognition given but do not expect that there should be any unless you won the match! Brian Edited July 27, 2011 by BBoyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter hornby Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport! Classes are meaningless in IPSC. You compete head to head in your division. Also, IPSC requires at least 5 competitors in a category before it is recognized. Later, Chuck Chuck, i am not sure when you got that ideal from but we use classes in IPSC and there is even their own classifier systems called ICS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport! Classes are meaningless in IPSC. You compete head to head in your division. Also, IPSC requires at least 5 competitors in a category before it is recognized. Later, Chuck Chuck, i am not sure when you got that ideal from but we use classes in IPSC and there is even their own classifier systems called ICS. From looking at major match results. Granted, I do not review them all but the big ones don't seem to have class standings in the results, just division standing. I have not been to an IPSC awards ceremony so if I spoke in error, I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Don't feel too bad. It goes lots of ways at the awards. I watched as a the top IPSC shooter failed to get much recognition at our USPSA Nationals one year. And, that is with him flat out winning the entire match. Awards and such are ran by volunteers too. Most of the effort having went into making the match work. Awards are often tacked on at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I've only shot a few IPSC matches, couple World Shoot Qualifiers, an IPSC US Nationals and the World Shoot back in Ecuador. I don't recall seeing class awards at any of them. It also appears that not many IPSC competitors have classifications either. Not sure how the classification system runs for IPSC but it doesn't seem as easy to obtain a classification as in the USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapzter Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Not sure how the classification system runs for IPSC but it doesn't seem as easy to obtain a classification as in the USPSA. It's pretty simple. Competitors register an ICS alias at ipsc.org. The match organizers include one or more IPSC classifiers in their match, and afterwards submit the classifier results to IPSC (done online from the WinMSS scoring program). I think the classification calculation is similar to what USPSA does. But many IPSC shooters and match organizers don't see any value in shooting classifiers or having a classification, and only a minority have a classification. Probably due to this, awards by class seem to be rare in Europe. I haven't yet attended a match here in Europe where classification was used for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUbor9 Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 ya but its not as fun for juniors the way they seemed to treat me I wouldnt really want to come back... Only a few people on my squad would even talk to me, one was swedish but had lived &started shooting in the states and the other was from norway...Was this match held in Sweden? If that was the case, perhaps the other shooters were shy about speaking to you in english, given that it is not their native language? I understand swedish and can almost speak it fuently and i can understand norwegen too... they we're just stuck up for some reason... the guy who had sponsored me the gun came to tell me later though that the ones who dont talk are also some of the better shooters here and they think to highly of themselves sometimes... So this weekend I just shot my first international IPSC match it was a lvl3 match, supposedly. I was one of the few shooters with a classification. Why don't they use/update classification here? Oh and I was the only junior shooter however the fact that a junior shot the match (and did Very well for having never shot the borrowed Open gun) was never even mentioned in the awards ceremony :/ NOT a good way to grow the sport!Classes are meaningless in IPSC. You compete head to head in your division. Also, IPSC requires at least 5 competitors in a category before it is recognized.Later,ChuckChuck, i am not sure when you got that ideal from but we use classes in IPSC and there is even their own classifier systems called ICS. yes i thought they used classification too it was just wierd Don't feel too bad. It goes lots of ways at the awards. I watched as a the top IPSC shooter failed to get much recognition at our USPSA Nationals one year. And, that is with him flat out winning the entire match. Awards and such are ran by volunteers too. Most of the effort having went into making the match work. Awards are often tacked on at the end. i wasnt bumbed about the awards. I know that with the borrowed gun(no exp with it or 38s before either) i didnt shoot every stage, if any, to the best of my obilities. The main thing i wanted to point out was the lack of promotion of the sport to the kids, i know several of the people walking around the range watching had shot the prematch and now had brought their kids with them... One who i managed to have a chance to talk to was 16! < why doesnt dad bring him out to shoot?!?! all I'm saying is they need to really promote better and the match director does need to be talking to a junior and as soon as he sees a way out of it leave while im talking to him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 all I'm saying is they need to really promote better and the match director does need to be talking to a junior and as soon as he sees a way out of it leave while im talking to him... Cool. Then say that. It's a good message. But please stop bashing a match staff that isn't here to offer the other half of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 sounds like you wernt expecting equal treatment, but seemed to think you deserve some kinda extra special treatment, You shot the match, you enjoyed it, go shoot more, It might be a language transition issue but you are coming across like you expect people to jump for joy because you walked on scene, This isnt a little league sport and believe it or not everyone doesnt like being around kids, the real world isnt like that. Did any one jump for joy or clap at any of the other shooters ? Not sure how the match ran but with a 5 minute walk through, many shooters are serious and like to concentrate on the stage and not socialize with other shooters. Enjoy the match, act mature, do your best, dont expect special treatment and your actions will earn respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUbor9 Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) I'm sorry my tone was lost in the text. I did not mean to sound like I was bashing the match officials, they were really nice for the most part. I did not expect "special treament" I was just another shooter. I just wanted to point out that in order for the sport to grow quicker, they need to promote it to the younger shooters, like Tim said "Wow, only 1 junior at a Level 3 match is not just sad- that is scary!" < thats not good ETA- and I orginally posted to point that out and because I did not uderstand that they did not use classification. Edited July 30, 2011 by TRUbor9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 It is a little hard to promote the sport for minors in a lot of respects. In most contries minors can not buy a gun of any kind never mind a handgun. Half of the people that shoot IPSC are in this country where, even with tougher laws in some states, shooting guns is as American as baseball and is a right not a privilege. A lot of the world does not have this right and the taxes they pay to shoot for components and such do not make it as easy to introduce young family members or friends to the sport. I can understand why there may not be that many juniors shooting a major in another IPSC region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUbor9 Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 yes i guess that makes sense but I still believe they should bring thier kids out. Just something for IPSC to work for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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