Progressive Press--Dang Squibs

[junkie]

I am not new to reloading but new to owning a L-N-L AP. I have reloaded for 25 years on a rock chucker.

I reloaded about 1000 rds of 9mm and of the first 150 I had 3 squibs. I have not narrowed it down yet but believe it happens when a round fails to eject on the eject station and I have to stop or back up a bit to get the loaded round out. I have used the 650 of a friend of mine with a powder check die and thought it would work in preventing this problem . Anyway would the lockout die have prevented this???

I will be installing a light of some sort directly over the press to visually check the powder and paying attention a bit more from now on.

If you could comment on this problem and not the fact that I should sell it and buy blue I would appreciate it.

[snake32]

i use the same press. i visually check each and every case to make sure it has powder in it before pulling the handle again. i just bought a powder cop die although i have not installed it yet so i cant comment on it. i would say slow down and look at every case in every bay before pulling the handle again. thats how i do it right now anyway. oh and by the way blue is over rated!!!

Edited May 22, 2011 by snake32

[whistlepig]

While I don't load on that machine, it sounds like you are already working through a probable cause. The progressives depend on multiple steps happening at once and in order. Stopping and backing up are two things that open the door to missing a case. The light is good idea. I also suggest that you go a bit slower for a short time while you get used to the rig. The speed will come to you quick. Little adjustments may be in order as well to get it running smooth. I do not know that machine, is it possible to just remove a problem or suspect case from a station and just continue on? Good luck with it.

And just to snake32............... big blues rock....all 3 of the ones on my bench...dont hate.

[snake32]

whistlepig i never said there was a problem with the blue press. i simply stated that they are over rated. dillon did a great job on their press but did an even better job getting the name out there. dillon is not the only press that works flawless after being tuned for a specific load as many think they are.

[GrumpyOne]

The key to loading on any progressive press is to pay attention to what you are doing. If you have a malfunction of the press, before going forward after clearing the problem, verify all stations are as they should be. Due diligence with any progressive is all it takes to make them perform flawlessly. While I don't load on a L-N-L (true Blue 550), it is the same concept, regardless of the color. Pay attention....

[CocoBolo]

Ok, it doesn't matter what press you have, I've got Blue and Red and both are excellent machines. Back to why it doesn't matter. Any time something goes wrong on either the LNL or the XL650 you have to stop and access every station and take the corrective action. On big blue you are more likley to get a double charge when things go wrong, but for me loading 9 major it just won't hold two.

When I started using my bullet feeder and of course the ptx die I created a few squibs. The way this happens is that the powder metering insert was hitting the bar that holds the case feeder, with the bullet feeder in place using all 5 stations you have a hard time seeing anything. Before using the bullet feeder I used a seprate expander die and the powder measure was orientated in the opposite direction. It will only fit one way and it has to be exact when using the bullet feeder.

Now in your case the best advice I can give is to put the powder measure in the 3rd station, bullet seater in 4, and crimp in 5. This puts the case directly in line of sight right in front of you so it is easy to see.

Another method on the LNL is to watch the powder metering insert if it goes up and down and there is powder in tube you got a charge. Be sure not to put any oil on any part of the powder measure or the drop tubes that will cause it to gum up inside. Take it apart once in a while and clean it and the drop tube. I use Brake Parts Cleaner.

If your index is off and I had mine off the powder actually missed the case but I was also having trouble with primers at the same time, one adjustment took care of both.

I don't know that a powder check would have helped, I have a powder check on the XL650 and you hear when something goes wrong. However using the powder check puts the bullet seater in #4 and you can see into the brass well at that point.

Sounds like maybe your shell plate is not tight enough, the easy eject is dead nuts reliable the old ejector wire use to fling one under my truck now an again. The Dillon has an ejector wire like the one Hornady got rid of, it can bind from time to time.

When there is an exception stop and access all stations, Blue or Red this will keep you out of trouble. When you get the Hornady adjusted right and its running smooth you don't have exceptions. With the bullet feeder I just sit there and pull the handle.

I had two xl650, sold one and kept the LNL, so I'm not a Blue biggot.

Right on GrumpOne - I was creating this Tolstoy response while you quickly beat me to the punch!

Edited May 22, 2011 by CocoBolo

[blaster113]

While I don't load on that machine, it sounds like you are already working through a probable cause. The progressives depend on multiple steps happening at once and in order. Stopping and backing up are two things that open the door to missing a case. The light is good idea. I also suggest that you go a bit slower for a short time while you get used to the rig. The speed will come to you quick. Little adjustments may be in order as well to get it running smooth. I do not know that machine, is it possible to just remove a problem or suspect case from a station and just continue on? Good luck with it.

And just to snake32............... big blues rock....all 3 of the ones on my bench...dont hate.

When I first transitioned to a blue progressive machine from a green rockchucker I had the same problem with squibs. Made a mistake or had some sort of snafu in the load process, backed up and didnt double check the loads and had some squibs. One squib got me a bulged barrel in a P14-45, guess I was lucky to have not blown the gun up. Cant really blame the press for squibs if its operator error causing them.

[blueeyephil]

I'm in the same boat. Long time Rock Chucker but new to L-N-L. And a couple of squibs and one extra strong that blew a case and extractor off a Sig P226. I've noticed two problems. Powder measure bushing unlocked causing light/no powder. Call the factory and they will send you a shim. Also if the shell plate holder bolt gets lose at all, you will have ejection problems, causing potential powder drop problems. I was using the Hornady powder check die still with problems. I've bought the RCBS lockout die but haven't had a chance to use it yet. By the way, a small LED flashlight will sit on the middle hole on top of the press helps to see and a strong light off to the upper right too. I'm hoping the lock out die solves the problem. I never had one issue in over 20 years with single stage loading.

[blueeyephil]

By the way a powder check die and lockout die are two different types of dies. I had no success with the powder check, I thought I was always watching the check die as well as looking in the case.

[blue]

I use the powder cop die and like it, does what its supposed to do. check every case visually that you have powder. as said above slow down no need to go as fast as you can. make sure the powder measure is not getting stuck in the up position and not throwing any powder. If it is new it takes a little bit to break in and run smoothly.

[junkie]

I suspect that I was trying to load too fast thinking I had it all down. I think the hang up at eject might be case related as it happens only about 1 in 50 to 75, the brass is all mixed but cleaned. I have taken note of all your responses and thank you very much. I also thank you for not making this a machine debate (Red or Blue) and keeping it to the process

[GrumpyOne]

Each has it's own camp (Red or Blue), but as a whole, we are here to share knowledge, regardless of what camp it comes from. Knowledge is neither Blue, nor Red.....But Blue is prettier!

[GrumpyOne]

Ok, it doesn't matter what press you have, I've got Blue and Red and both are excellent machines. Back to why it doesn't matter. Any time something goes wrong on either the LNL or the XL650 you have to stop and access every station and take the corrective action. On big blue you are more likley to get a double charge when things go wrong, but for me loading 9 major it just won't hold two.

When I started using my bullet feeder and of course the ptx die I created a few squibs. The way this happens is that the powder metering insert was hitting the bar that holds the case feeder, with the bullet feeder in place using all 5 stations you have a hard time seeing anything. Before using the bullet feeder I used a seprate expander die and the powder measure was orientated in the opposite direction. It will only fit one way and it has to be exact when using the bullet feeder.

Now in your case the best advice I can give is to put the powder measure in the 3rd station, bullet seater in 4, and crimp in 5. This puts the case directly in line of sight right in front of you so it is easy to see.

Another method on the LNL is to watch the powder metering insert if it goes up and down and there is powder in tube you got a charge. Be sure not to put any oil on any part of the powder measure or the drop tubes that will cause it to gum up inside. Take it apart once in a while and clean it and the drop tube. I use Brake Parts Cleaner.

If your index is off and I had mine off the powder actually missed the case but I was also having trouble with primers at the same time, one adjustment took care of both.

I don't know that a powder check would have helped, I have a powder check on the XL650 and you hear when something goes wrong. However using the powder check puts the bullet seater in #4 and you can see into the brass well at that point.

Sounds like maybe your shell plate is not tight enough, the easy eject is dead nuts reliable the old ejector wire use to fling one under my truck now an again. The Dillon has an ejector wire like the one Hornady got rid of, it can bind from time to time.

When there is an exception stop and access all stations, Blue or Red this will keep you out of trouble. When you get the Hornady adjusted right and its running smooth you don't have exceptions. With the bullet feeder I just sit there and pull the handle.

I had two xl650, sold one and kept the LNL, so I'm not a Blue biggot.

Right on GrumpOne - I was creating this Tolstoy response while you quickly beat me to the punch!

You calling me a "Blue Bigot"? Sirrah, I take offense to that notion and challenge you to a duel at 20 paces with Q-tips....

Edited May 22, 2011 by GrumpyOne

[TGibe]

I would have to say adding a light directly above the powder die and having my main focus be on making sure there is powder has taken care of my squib problem.

Like some others it took a bulged barrel to make it really hit home. Since that time if I am not sure I checked the powder on a round it goes into a seperate bin and only gets used in slow fire mode or I pull the bullet and then reload it making sure. I have not had one of these "unsure cases" end up without powder yet, but the pain of paying for a new schuemann barrel was enough so that I don't take any chances.

Cheers,

Allen

[98sr20ve]

My LnL had more issues then I could stand. Same with my Old Load Master. I had squibs on both machines. User error of course. But the more the press screws up the more likely it will happen. I loaded 1/75th as many round on my LnL as I did on my 550 and just had a squib today from a old batch of LnL ammo never one squib on my 550 or LCT (both reliable presses). I am just glad I don't have that LnL any longer. Back to Blue. I know that sounds entirely Blue'ist of me but I will not keep a press that is not reliable. Get that thing reliable or get rid of it.

[MARKAVELI]

Taking your time and verifying your powder charge is the way to go regardless of color, I notice that a lot can happen whe you take your eyes off the reloader or get detracted.. But my blue press will beat up your red press! Lol.. Be safe peeps.

[junkie]

I am going to attempt to weigh out the 1k rds I have loaded one at a time to see if I can identify the ones w/out powder, Sounds like fun huh?? Had I gone slower or watched that stage I would not be spending the time to do this and I could be reloading.

That brings up a point, we all have to learn in our own way. I could have thought this through, read some posts, asked advice whatever. But no as usual I have to learn by doing, right or wrong that is the way I learn. The hard way seems to be the only way for me.

I hope this prevents some people from learning the hard way cause then I can die happy.

[98sr20ve]

Check both the powder drop tubes for rust build up.

[TonyT]

I learned very quickly when I purchased my first progressive press that one has to clear all the stations and start from scratch when clearing an obstruction/jam.

[a.roberts]

I load on a LNL AP, have about 2k rounds loaded with no squibs and no problems that were the machine's fault.

I visually verify powder before I put the bullet on the case and have a flashlight in the middle hole to throw some extra light.

As for weighing finished rounds to find the squibs, it won't work with any real certainty.

Brass can vary in weight, bullets can vary in weight, add the two variances together and they may be enough to offset the missing powder and let a squib slip by. You're better off pulling them. All of them.

[sdm74]

Haven't had a squib since I installed the rcbs lock-out die.

[GregJ]

I picked up a used LNL last year and love it!! I had a powder cop die in #3, but I'm changing my loading process up some, and part of that included the RCBS Lockout die. I've not been able to load rounds with it yet, but testing various powder weights with it has convinced me it's something I should have gotten from the get-go. It's easy to adjust, and you dont have to keep an eye on it like the Powder Cop. It's not intended to prevent squibs with low powder, but should prevent very low powder charges and high charged cases from going un-noticed. I set mine up for 5.7gr, and it seems to lock-up with an empty case, charge up to about 3gr and over 7gr. Hope this helps some.

[perrysho]

JUNKIE,

Opinions are like ears and rears, everyone has one or two.

I have two grandsons who shoot, we go thru a lot of ammo.

We have three progressive loaders (one Blue & 2 Reds 9 - 40 - 45) and a single stage Rock Chucker on the same bench in a row, each has a desk lite and a 3X mirrow mounted on each press, adjusted to look into cases before adding a bullet and/or pulling the handle. If you set everything up right, a quick glance will become automatic.

Keep you some cases cleaned, sized, primed in each caliber you load set aside. Makes it easier to clean out and recharge your loader. When a Major Ahhhhhh Poop happens, and they do regardless of how many years one has reloaded.

I bought the desk lites at LOWES and the small wire framed make-up mirrows at the Dollar Store. Hose Clamps and all-thread rods, washers, nuts at Tractor Supply (farm store).

Have FUN be SAFE, Squibs can be very dangerous. A DOUBLE POWDER CHARGE scares the hell out of me, thats when one gets hurt.

Perry

Edited May 26, 2011 by perrysho

[Jan R.]

I learned very quickly when I purchased my first progressive press that one has to clear all the stations and start from scratch when clearing an obstruction/jam.

1+..Clear the table!!!

Jan