Solvability Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) I am a long time pistol shooter - reasonably accurate - EX in SSP and ESP. I have to adjust my sights slightly to the right in order to center the group - if I pick up anyone elses gun I hit left if they pick my gun up they hit right. I am left eye dominant - is this some aspect of eye dominance? Folks have thought I was jerking the gun but they do not see it when I shoot and my accuracy is above average. Thoughts or theories? Edited May 17, 2011 by Solvability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbleeye Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 What about you grip, is it the same everytime, or reasonably close, I am left eye dominant and I have to watch myself or I will cant the pistol to the left, may not be the same with you but something to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 What about you grip, is it the same everytime, or reasonably close, I am left eye dominant and I have to watch myself or I will cant the pistol to the left, may not be the same with you but something to think about I do not think it is grip or cant but I will experiment next time at the range. I wondered if it was some form of parallax but others do not seem to have it - just an oddity, I reckon unless someone has some science or similar experience to relate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatNat Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Before IPSC I was shooting ISSF airpistol and if I swaped guns with someone we always had to adjust our sights to hit the centre. That is for a 1/4" target. I'm not sure about the relevace in IPSC or IDPA. As long as you shoot consistant groups I see no problem in adjusting the sights to get them to the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think it is reasonably normal. I know with rifles everybody's zero is different. Thats why we had to know OUR zero on the M16 in the army. Chances are we could not just pick up a rifle and hit a target at any significant distance without adjusting the sights to our zero. I think as long as it involves eyes and sights this would be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I think if the gun is fired in a ransom rest (Eliminates the human factor) and it is shooting point of aim, point of impact, then any shooter with good fundamentals should be able to pick up the gun and hit what they are aiming at. Shooting a rifle is different because there are more influencing factors, plus the distance magnifies small errors. Everyone grips the gun differently and applies varying degrees of pressure to the grips and trigger which accounts for the gun not shooting the same for 2 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 It's not the eyes (unless you are looking out of the top/distorted part of some really crappy glasses). It's the grip/interaction between the shooter and the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Solvability, do you move the sights to your left eye or move you left eye to the sights? I am left eye dominant and I will turn my head slightly to the right so that the sights are lined up with my left eye. I do not have the same problem with picking up someone else's gun and shooting it. Not that I hit much with it. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted May 17, 2011 Author Share Posted May 17, 2011 Solvability, do you move the sights to your left eye or move you left eye to the sights? I am left eye dominant and I will turn my head slightly to the right so that the sights are lined up with my left eye. I do not have the same problem with picking up someone else's gun and shooting it. Not that I hit much with it. later rdd I use a target centered focus and move the gun into alignment with my eye and the target. Anything under 15 yards I point shoot - it is only a tight head shot or the odd 25/30 yd shot that the sight really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I have a similar issue. If you wear glasses you might want to check with your optometrist. In my case (according to my optometrist) it is the prisms in my glasses that are used to correct for double vision in both planes in combination with the curvature of the lens. Kind of the same effect that Flex spoke about with crappy, distorted glasses. Edited May 18, 2011 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andoy Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 This is a good read regarding parallax, in which I think is the culprit to your problem. http://re-gun.com/2011/04/parallax-he-aint-your-friend/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I've often wondered how this could possibly happen. I don't get it. I am left eye dominant likes other and don't notice these things when shooting other's guns. I am surprised you use target focus out to 15yds with iron sights- that's a good distance. At what distance do you try to shoot groups and notice this? I don't see target focus at 15yds as an ideal what to shoot groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 I've often wondered how this could possibly happen. I don't get it. I am left eye dominant likes other and don't notice these things when shooting other's guns. I am surprised you use target focus out to 15yds with iron sights- that's a good distance. At what distance do you try to shoot groups and notice this? I don't see target focus at 15yds as an ideal what to shoot groups. 12 yds - is my standard practice distance - I am no bullseye shooter but using target focus I can shoot heads to 15yds - past that I aim with conventional attention to front sight. Shooting groups I use conventional aiming and the need for right windage is present from 10yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I am right eye dominant-- but apparently not quite as dominant as most everyone else. Every now and again, my left eye will actually take over for a split second and my natural POA has me seeing the sights as if my right eye were closed. I noticed it first while messing around with night sights in the pitch blackness. Lining up ghostly, glowing dots with absolutely no point of reference revealed this phenomenon. It's never happened in a match or live fire practice, and only in extremely rare circumstances while dry firing. The two things that seem to come together to produce this effect is fatigue and a close, monochrome background. If I am standing within 3-5 feet of a wall and my eyes are a bit tuckered out, I can reproduce the dominance switch reasonably consistently. While it's never happened with a hot firearm in my hands, the effect seems tangible nonetheless. Although my sight picture was consistent and clear, I found that referencing it on the blurry background target often led me to hold left of center. I diagnosed it on one particularly aggravating range day, where my groups were super tight, every shot felt perfect... but most shots were about 1" left of center at 10 yards. I got my sight picture, held, and closed my left eye. The post was lined up properly. I broke a couple of slow fire shots, and repeated. Now my POA had shifted to exactly where the rounds were hitting-- to the left! Now a caveat. These may have been stand alone, unrelated issues. Perhaps my stance was off (I've tweaked it some) and my natural POA was actually a bit left of my initial sight picture. But I took steps to shore up my right eye dominance and ensure I was wasn't favoring one side of the blurry near-double image of the target. In short order, the problem has all but disappeared. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pranavdc Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I am left eye dominant and if I shoot a pistol of a left eye dominant shooter I hit my poa/poi. If I shoot a right eye dominant shooters weapon my poi is shifted. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Check out this thread w/article: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98858 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 I am going out on a very thick limb, and assuming you are shooting a Glock. Change platforms and it will most likely go away. Grab a 1911 or M&P from a buddy and run a few mags through it. If it disappears, you have your answer. It's not your vision. That didn't change. Your hand/frame/trigger relationship did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 So if there's no problem with your shooting then why change anything your doing just so the sights suit others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 I am going out on a very thick limb, and assuming you are shooting a Glock. Change platforms and it will most likely go away. Grab a 1911 or M&P from a buddy and run a few mags through it. If it disappears, you have your answer. It's not your vision. That didn't change. Your hand/frame/trigger relationship did. Yes - I noticed this on the Glocks - but seems to be universal even down to my 629 revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 It most assuredly is the hand/trigger realtionship as has been mentioned before. We were doing range qualifications this week, and one of our officers was consistently low left. I was not succesful in convincing him that teh sights were not off, and that it was a combination of pre-ignition pus (PIP) and too much trigger finger. We had the officers fire from 30 yards (not part of the qualification, but training), and this guy was off the paper. I had him shoot slow fire from a standing, sanbag rest from 30 yards; right in the center in about a a 6"circle. Then had him shoot groups from the prone, and good shooting again. When we had back at teh 15 yard line, from the holster, low left again. But, we wer able to improve his shooting over the course of the afternoon his shooting improved because he accepted the idea that the pistol shot straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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