Patrick Sweeney Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 OK, here's the drill: My next book is "Gun Digest Book of the AR-15, Vol 1" I'm going to be testing every full rifle that is made (no "Uppers from Bob's house o'guns") in .223 and .308. (I'll probably have a 6.8 or two, too.) Besides the usual trigger weight, reliability, accuracy, etc. what do you want to know? What is it about a rifle that you need to know in order to make an informed choice? I know what I do, but I'm sure you guys (and gals) have a few thoughts of your own. I'd rather hear them now, than hear them once the thing is printed. It is not limited to just IPSC ARs. I'll be shooting tactical guns, High Power Match and Service guns, everything I can get on loan. (Yes, I have to send them back. Duane, stop laughing. Everyone else: There are not so many "free guns for writers" as you'd think.) Vol 2 will be the Uppers and accessories, modifications, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Accuracy with cheap 55 FMJ and good match bullets. (Man bites dog: tell us if a particular barrel shoots the cheap stuff especially well or doesn't shoot the good stuff.) Whether a particular 1:9 barrel can stabilize 75 and 77 gr bullets. Identify which barrels are chromed-lined. If possible, identify the actual chambers (i.e., by reamer). Identify the rifling method. Whether the handguards are floated and whether a bipod stud can easily be attached. Whether the handguards get uncomfortably hot. Muzzle brake effectiveness and loudness. Whether a barrel shoots worse as it is heated up. Whether the flattop dimensions are standard. Barrel profile and actual diameter ahead of the gas block. Does it blow back an unusually large amount of gas through the charging handle? Is the barrel susceptible to unusually bad fouling? Does it accept these common magazines: GI 20, GI 30, Thermold 30, Orlite 30, British SA80 30, Sterling 40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Do the sights track regularly? Are the clicks equal and repeatable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Yeah and the range of adjustability, especially elevation of the non-A2 sights. That is, the carry handle sights and the flattop and flip-up sights. And find out what the true adjustment intervals are. (E.g., 1/2 MOA probably isn't.) On the CMP guns you probably want to know a lot about the front sight: whether you can crank it down enough for a 600 or 1,000 yard zero, whether it has a set screw, whether the base is adjustable for windage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 When you shoot the lighter weight guns, I'd like to know about how much the sights (or dot) move compared to a standard M16A2 configuration. At some point their is a tradeoff between portability and shootability where you have a nice compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 How are the chambers dimensionally? Run smallish? Nominal? Oversize? How does the gun feed the *first* round off various type of *full* magazines. (i.e. aluminum 20's and 30's, Orlites, Thermolds...) Has the feedramp been extended down to assist feeding? What brand/type is the trigger group? Are the parts hard enough to tune, or will they need to be replaced before getting a single-stage trigger job done? What's the typical stock trigger pull. Chrome-lined barrel, or plain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 And don't forget photos of buxom wimmenz shooting FA M16s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Uhhh...scantilly clad buxom wimmenz. Buxom wimmenz wearing a parka just ain't gonna do it. Back to reality... Please identify any non-standard parts which might cause problems when one tries to go for an upgrade/repair/replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 As you wish. You have already given me several ideas of neat-o tests and photographs. (NOT of buxom women. Those I reserve for myself, selfish bastard that I am.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Post Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Patrick, Some things I would like to know about AR's My Bushmaster is marked 5.56/.223 on the lower, but how do I know what the upper is chambered for. I saw a carbon fiber Bushmaster, it was light as a feather, how do they shoot and how long to they last? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 AR barrels are marked ahead of the gas block (front sight). Most or all (I'm not sure about the CMP, stainless, and varmint barrels) Bushies are stamped "B MP 5.56 NATO" and are chambered with a 5.56 reamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 My Bushmaster “Varminter” isn’t stamped, at least not where I can see it, so I called Bushmaster and asked them (800-883-6229). I had heard horror stories about shooting 5.56 in a .223 chamber and wanted to know if it was okay to shoot it in my gun. Bushmaster said that my rifle did indeed have a SAAMI spec’ed .223 chamber for better accuracy but that the cut the leade a little deeper so I could safely shoot 5.56. WTF? I thought the only significant difference between the .223 and 5.56 chamber WAS the throat (leade)! In the end I guess it really doesn’t matter, the gun will shoot ½ MOA with Winchester USA223R3 or American Eagle 55gr BT and 1MOA with M193. See Patrick, it’s questions like this that need to be answered! There are a lot of us old bolt gunners out there trying to figure out these new fangled self-loading rifles. Time for my Geritol… Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Check out the different types of chambers described by John Holliger here: http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm 5.56 Bushmaster Freebore: .0250 Lead Angle: 1 deg, 30 min 80gr SMK OAL: 2.450-2.475 Comments: Info from Bushmaster (thanks!). These are one of the best out-of-the box barrels, and handle up to 80 gr bullets no problemo. (I'm assuming he's talking about the barrel on the Bushy CMP rifle.) the gun will shoot ½ MOA with Winchester USA223R3 or American Eagle 55gr BT and 1MOA with M193 You lucky SOB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted April 14, 2004 Share Posted April 14, 2004 I think a check of wear on parts and accuracy .... lets say at new, 1K, 10K and 100K You owe me btw, I'm assuming that you'll be able to use all of that free ammo that goes with all of the free rifles that go to the writting gang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowsure Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 Give some plus and minus's of 16 vs 20 vs 24 barrels, you know, that old chestnut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 I'm going to try and have some of everything, so the short vs. long wil be covered. As for free rifles, I told you Duane, stop laughing. kdmoore, there are a lot of bennies to being a writer, but free guns isn't on the list. Sometimes I'll get a chance to buy one at a good price, but most of the time I have to pay to ship them back. As for free ammo, I dole out some to my volunteer testers, but keep the rest for my own testing. Someone has to shoot groups to photograph, and if I left it to the testers they'd blast it all up beating the various gongs to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcambre Posted April 15, 2004 Share Posted April 15, 2004 How about getting a sample of each of the comps and then figuring out a good way to compare them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Comp comparison already on the list. The problem is in how to record the actual effects, and not just a vague "felt softer but rose more" sort of report. I may be workign with lasers, camera and after darkness on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Comp comparison already on the list. The problem is in how to record the actual effects, and not just a vague "felt softer but rose more" sort of report. I may be workign with lasers, camera and after darkness on this one. BAD ASS!!! A comp test of that magnitude would be wicked cool. Also, compare some of the rail systems out there and some of the BUIS... gotta give the Tacktickle guys the nod. Maybe check out some of the LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) parts, too... specifically the bolt/bolt assembly. I'm probably going to be picking up one of the bolts for my first AR build. At ~$155 it ain't cheap, but it's supposed to be gooood. Adjustable stock comparo? Single-stage vs. 2-stage triggers? Pros/Cons, reliability? Non-magnified optic comparo (Eotech/Aimpoint/???)? ACOG comparo? If you do barrel length testing, add in 18-inchers... seem to be gaining in popularity in our sport. Try to figure out if there's much of a difference between carbine, midlength, and rifle length gas systems (not sure what grounds would be used to test--reliability would seem one, but if a rifle's put together right, it ain't gonna matter if its got a short gas tube). Also, maybe try to get your hands on some of the products that seem gimmicky (PRI Gasbuster charging handle, D-Fender extractor doohickey, anti-rotational trigger/hammer pins, etc.) and give us an "honest" review. I know the likelyhood of crapping on someone's product isn't that likely, but I'd like to know about whether or not you, like, like it... like, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 You lucky B*****D ! Some guys get all the luck. I would be interested in knowing the source of the gun. Off the shelf from ordinary stock ? Or a specifically prepped, or carfully chosen " test gun " from the MFG. ? Need any volunteers ? Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted April 18, 2004 Share Posted April 18, 2004 Some thoughts: LMT MRP, SPR, TA01 vs. TA31 vs. TA11, Magpul M93 stock (the Marines like it!), 75-77gr load comparison ( mk262 mod ??), 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, new magazine comparison (HK SA80 mags, PRI mag bodies), PRI components (float tubes, SPR-style rail, gas buster, Aimpoint mounts), LMT enhanced bolt vs. KAC enhanced bolt, LMT long-dwell bolt carrier, JP lightweight bolt carrier, effects of gas system length (carbine, mid, rifle) on operation, reliability, and recoil impulses, conventional, single-point, and three-point sling and mounting choices, eye relief, AR gas piston conversions: HK M4, Kurts Custom, BUIS comparison (ARMS, Troy, KAC, etc) -z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Leave out all that gun store comando crap. Stick with the stuff that real people put on real guns, that they are really going to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 19, 2004 Author Share Posted April 19, 2004 TBF: As Duane and I have mentioned before (and I'm sure other writers have written) there ain't no "special, tuned, writer-only" guns out there. No one has the time, nor the ability to stock the inventory. At most, something might get another inspection before shipping just to make sure nothings wrong. And still things get through. On the 1911 book I got a pistol with a trigger pull so heavy that my recording guage AND all my trigger weights wouldn't drop the hammer. The trigger pull was in the mid to upper teens in pounds. The manufacturer fixed it, paid for the next day air shipping both ways, and got it back to me in a week. Wide45: All the stuff we use now was once gun store commando crap. The trick will be sorting out what will be the future "must have" from the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Besides...the gun store commando crap is what will make this book sell many times the # of copies as a straight competion only book would. Pat just needs to make sure to print the GSCC stuff on "tactical paper" to keep the GSCC's happy and so the rest of us realize that this is the "humor section". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 lol...DSCC "tactical paper"...camo border? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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