Discouraged

[doc540]

I'm grateful for all the helpful advice and coaching I've gotten here.

But maybe reloading just isn't for me.

I loaded 30 rounds yesterday after getting my SDB back from Dillon. It operated like a Swiss watch.

Went to the range after work today.

HAD A SQUIB

Now I have NO confidence.

When I reloaded the 30 rounds yesterday I was VERY careful:

1. I check, rechecked, and re-rechecked my powder measure both before and during the loading.

2. I worked slowly on the SDB.

3. After I reloaded four or five rounds I measured the OAL of each and every round.

4. I also weighed each and every round after I reloaded them.

5. I closely inspected every primer to make sure they were seated well.

To have a squib after working so slowly and carefully has taken the wind out of my sails.

Shooting IDPA rapid fired means there is NO way I can have a squib. It just can't happen.

I don't want to ruin my Commander and/or hurt myself or anyone else.

I'm thinking about just selling the entire setup and loading up on WalMart WWB for practice and match shooting.

Rant off

[GrumpyOne]

I'm grateful for all the helpful advice and coaching I've gotten here.

But maybe reloading just isn't for me.

I loaded 30 rounds yesterday after getting my SDB back from Dillon. It operated like a Swiss watch.

Went to the range after work today.

HAD A SQUIB

Now I have NO confidence.

When I reloaded the 30 rounds yesterday I was VERY careful:

1. I check, rechecked, and re-rechecked my powder measure both before and during the loading.

2. I worked slowly on the SDB.

3. After I reloaded four or five rounds I measured the OAL of each and every round.

4. I also weighed each and every round after I reloaded them. Never gonna catch a squib that way, too much variation in the weight of the brass. The best way to catch it is to visually inspect each case after the powder drop. It could also e the powder you are using, not dropping enough, damp, static, etc. If it's an extremely light charge of powder, it may have only been short a 10th or 2 grains, and had that issue.

5. I closely inspected every primer to make sure they were seated well.

To have a squib after working so slowly and carefully has taken the wind out of my sails.

Shooting IDPA rapid fired means there is NO way I can have a squib. It just can't happen.

I don't want to ruin my Commander and/or hurt myself or anyone else.

I'm thinking about just selling the entire setup and loading up on WalMart WWB for practice and match shooting.

Rant off

What powder are you using and what is the charge weight?

[doc540]

Unique

4.6

29 rounds cycled perfectly and accurately

1 didn't and it was a DAO problem (dumbazz operator)

[Putty]

Hang in there we can figure it out!

+1 on the powder and charge weight. Also, what kind of primers, bullet, brass etc.

[IMC87]

I agree with visually inspecting each powder charge in the case. Even off my 550 I still inspect each casing of it's powder charge before seating a bullet. Don't be discouraged, try again. Youre on the right track on safety. Good thing you caught the squib.

[doc540]

I guess I'm just not in a state of mind to rationally discuss this.

The only reason I "caught" the squib was because it was so close to the chamber the next round wouldn't load and locked the slide partially open.

I don't want to think of what could have happened if it was halfway down the barrel, and I was shooting rapidly.

But, fwiw here's the info:

Berry's 124 grain TCJ roundnose bullets

Unique powder

Federal Match small pistol primers

clean, WWB once-fired brass

There is just NO way I should've missed one round out of only 30.

[latech15]

I don't get really comfortable with my loads until after the first 25 or so. I tend to check them and re check them like you said. Those are really the ones that usually get screwed up because you are not in your rhythm yet. Once the rhythm is set, and everything is ticking along nicely, there is really less chance of screwing up in my opinion.

[98sr20ve]

Don't be discouraged. But I am going to tell you the truth about reloading. And it's counter what you are thinking now. Your thinking the slower you go, the more you measure, the more you check and recheck the safer you are. The opposite is true. You have a very safe press. It's your interaction with the press that caused the problem. It's far more important to get in a rhythm. Far more important to let the machine do what it was designed to do. As soon as you start checking powder drop, OAL, etc your introducing the possibility of you making a mistake. The machine will not make a squib. It was you putting the case back in the wrong station or forgetting to recharge the case after measuring the powder drop. Don't ever take more then one case out of the press at one time. NEVER EVER leave powder in your powder pan (that way you know it's a problem if you see powder in the pan when you are loading). Only check Powder drop once every 100 rds at the most. I don't even check that often. Check OAL on a discharged case not a case from the shell plate. Start the session with 10 drops in a clean case with a upsidedown primer. Notice the height of the powder. Weight the 10th charge and make sure it's right (dump the others with out weighting). Then start loading and weight the next case you drop powder (be sure to tap the junk out of it after sizing and priming). It should be within .1gr. After that just load and only stop when you hear the buzzer. Dump the load bin every 100 rds after doing your powder check (not before).

Btw, Unique meter poorly. You might need to accept .2 gr variance. Don't worry about it. Just don't load max loads. It will vary more the more you stop the process/routine. It metered to .1 gr on my 550 if I always used the machine the same every time. The more you stop, the worse it will appear to meter.

[The_Vigilante]

I am not familiar with the SDB. Are you able to visually inspect the case before you set the bullet on top of the case? Unique is one of those powders (flake) that is subject to bridging and thus variation. I would find another powder that is easier to measure thru the powder measure.

[GrumpyOne]

Don't be discouraged. But I am going to tell you the truth about reloading. And it's counter what you are thinking now. Your thinking the slower you go, the more you measure, the more you check and recheck the safer you are. The opposite is true. You have a very safe press. It's your interaction with the press that caused the problem. It's far more important to get in a rhythm. Far more important to let the machine do what it was designed to do. As soon as you start checking powder drop, OAL, etc your introducing the possibility of you making a mistake. The machine will not make a squib. It was you putting the case back in the wrong station or forgetting to recharge the case after measuring the powder drop. Don't ever take more then one case out of the press at one time. NEVER EVER leave powder in your powder pan (that way you know it's a problem if you see powder in the pan when you are loading). Only check Powder drop once every 100 rds at the most. I don't even check that often. Check OAL on a discharged case not a case from the shell plate. Start the session with 10 drops in a clean case with a upsidedown primer. Notice the height of the powder. Weight the 10th charge and make sure it's right (dump the others with out weighting). Then start loading and weight the next case you drop powder (be sure to tap the junk out of it after sizing and priming). It should be within .1gr. After that just load and only stop when you hear the buzzer. Dump the load bin every 100 rds after doing your powder check (not before).

Btw, Unique meter poorly. You might need to accept .2 gr variance. Don't worry about it. Just don't load max loads. It will vary more the more you stop the process/routine. It metered to .1 gr on my 550 if I always used the machine the same every time. The more you stop, the worse it will appear to meter.

+1 to all of the above. Leave the press alone and let it work for you...

[doc540]

I think that should be a "Beginner" sticky.

It makes perfect sense that over-checking and interrupting the process can create more errors than not.

Here's the squib:

The question I keep asking myself is, "How in the Sam Hill did I not catch a weak charge when I weighed every single round?".

[Sarge]

The biggest improvement I made to my loading bench is lots and lots of light! I have the bench set at a height where I look directly into every case after the powder drop.

+1 to letting the machine run. Pulling rounds from the press can get confusing real fast.

I check the powder drop about 20 times before I start a loading session. Then I only check oal out of the bin.

[herky]

See if there is an experienced reloader in your area that is willing to oversee your operation, not to do it for you, just to lend a hand if needed. Another set of eyes may catch a problem you are not aware of. Hang in there, thousands of shooters reload with success and there is no reason that you cannot be one of them. Good luck.

[Sarge]

If you are talking about weighing loaded rounds that is one of the least accurate ways of telling anything. Too many variables.

[doc540]

If you are talking about weighing loaded rounds that is one of the least accurate ways of telling anything. Too many variables.

Yes, I meant I weighed each loaded round. Didn't know it was that inaccurate.

And I do have an experienced loader friend who will look over my shoulder. I just have to work around his changing work schedule at the refinery.

My guess, is, as stated above, by "over-checking" things and interrupting the process I somehow loaded a light charge.

And if I DO continue to reload, I'm going to mount a small light to completely illuminate the charging station.

And, thanks again for the good advice here.

Edited April 12, 2011 by doc540

[Jay870]

For a long time when I first started reloading I would talk out loud... "primer, powder, bullet... primer, powder, bullet... primer, powder, bullet,etc..."

"Primer" when I felt the primer seat on the up-stroke. "Powder" when I had visually verified there was powder in the case. "Bullet" when I set the bullet on the case.

I knew that when I said "WTF" somewhere in the sequence it was time to stop and check things out. Wife thought I was nuts but it worked.

[98sr20ve]

It is very, very unlikely that a real squib will cycle the slide enough to feed another round. I am sure someone will say it can happen, anything is possible, but it is far, far more likely to not feed. Plus, you will notice the squib if your actually aiming and not just pulling the trigger twice. Watch that front sight during recoil. It will tell you the gun is not doing something right.

[carlosa]

Hey dood,

I'm glad to see this post as i had a similar experience when i got my press.. i wrecked my head trying to figure out why i was getting random mouse fart loads..

this might sound really stupid but it's worth a try...

you see.. when i first started loading, i made the mistake of lubing all my brass by throwing it in a box and spraying dillon case lube all over them and shaking the box so that the lube would get on all the cases. it would then go through the press.

what i didn't realize is that the powder was getting wet due to left over case lube inside the case.

Allot of different sources will tell you that case lube has no effect on powder and primers, but it has been my experience that it can definitely render your powder inert... (so even if you have a perfect drop not all your powder will ignite)

this is what i suggest you do...

load 50 rounds with brass that is bone dry, no case lube what so ever.. your press will not run as smoothly but it will allow you to rule out the possibility of the lube having an effect on your rounds...

if you can get through this 50 rounds with no velocity issues, then make another 50 feel free to lube the cases but make sure to spray your cases mouth down.. as to not get any case lube in the inside (only the outside). then take those 50 rounds and see if the problem disappears..

i have switched from dillon case lube to one shot.. but i still take the time to turn all my cases mouth down before spraying the them with the lube...

once i figured this out, all my frustrations went away.

let me know if this helps..

cheers,

Los.

Edited April 13, 2011 by carlosa

[GrumpyOne]

I spray a shot or two in a 1 gallon ziploc bag, dump in a bunch of cases, shake thoroughly, then load.

[carlosa]

I spray a shot or two in a 1 gallon ziploc bag, dump in a bunch of cases, shake thoroughly, then load.

this sounds like a good way to do it...

how ever yo do it just make sure your "NOT" getting "ANY" lube in the inside of the case what so ever..

i learned this the hard way

chased my tail for months blaming everything from my bullets to caol variation of .01.

i almost gave up to

but i was lucky enough to figure it out, and now loading is not so bad (but it's still a pain in my ass )

[98sr20ve]

Exactly, spray the bag, not the brass. Problem solved. I also use Lee Lube mixed with 99% Alcohol. It will not effect the powder. It's not a oil. Dries totally dry to the touch as well. It's a PITA to mix but I much prefer it. You also don't have to tumble after loading either.

[kevin c]

Try the "Five P's" mantra:

Pull the handle - to size, decap, flare and drop the charge, seat and crimp in all four stations.

Push to prime in station 2.

Peek in the case to check the powder charge as the case moves from station 2 to station 3.

Pick up a bullet with the left hand, a case in the right.

Place the bullet in station 3, the case in station 1.

and repeat as needed...

eta:

Spray lube can affect performance. Here's an old experiment (post #43): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14161&st=25&p=172567&hl=arsenal&fromsearch=1entry172567

A good light to see into the case is a big plus.

Edited April 13, 2011 by kevin c

[GrumpyOne]

I use a commercial silicone spray bought from Lowes Home Improvement...It works great, never had any issues. Alos, after spreaying the bag, spray a paper towel and put it in the bag with the brass. Just don't spray the brass!

[98sr20ve]

Using my method I get single Digit ext spreads. It doesn't take much luge to make a difference. Of course I use Lee Lube. It's not silicon or anything like it. It's almost like talcum powder but I have not clue what it is.

[Sarge]

we are drifting but I got an SD of 4 using ACE brand pure silicone sprayed in a bag like Grumpy does. I can't help but think if lube is causing squibs and high SD or ES', etc, ya'll are using way too much! It only takes about a two second blast in a bag.