Stlhead Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am not a good enough shooter to be added to Mr. Miller's list, but I do wear socks when I shot. I also prefer a 20" or 22" barrel. I think they shoot softer and swing better than the shorter guns. As far as I am concerned you get the added velocity with no disadvantages, and in my opinion (not worth poo) even advantages over a shorter gun. Plus short guns make me look fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Kurt, I switch between an 18 and a 20. And I wear socks while shooting ... and you can't see the outline of my toes. I would not compete at a major match with a 16 but I invite all my competitors to use 16s, 14.5s, 11s, and 10.5s. SBRs are underrepresented in 3 gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Switch between an 18" and a 20" Kelly??? I thought I detected a "bit of estrogen" in your reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I like the 18" because I'm weak and need less weight up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I can understand the tac irons guys wanting 20" and 22" barrels for the sight radius. If you reload your own rifle ammo and are willing to put in some time experimenting, you can work up loads that will do great in a 16" barrel at 400 yards. If you are limited to shooting factory ammo or are not wanting to do a lot of experimenting with different rifle powders, your velocity will probably suffer pretty badly in a 16" over a 18"/20"/22". When it comes down to it in tac optics, it's the shooter, not minor increases in barrel length that win matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 And we can say it,s the shooter and not minor DECREASES in barrel length that win matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 That's true. Unless you are Taran Butler and can beat most with a 16". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 True, unless you are Daniel Horner who can beat most everyone with a 20" barrel...uh same for some guys named Miculek and Voigt....just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 What a great read/debate. Velocity loss & actual down range effect aren't that great 16-20. Maybe those other guys are running 20s because its just easier to deal with KM??? swap on, swap off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Kurt would probably beat me with a 7.5" AR pistol, but I do think there are some past reasons for 20" that have lost validity. I'm running 16" this year and the rifles feel better and my scores have gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I used to have a 16" and 18" CTR and a 20" "custom" with a WOA barrel, since I thought that a 16 would handle better and faster on tight stages. After running some drills I noticed that I didnt really shoot any faster with the 16 than my 18, or even the 20" and was just giving up velocity as well as getting a rifle that didnt shoot as soft as the 18 and 20". As far as I see it, there aren't really any benefits to a 16" for what we do, only drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diversmith Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 16"= carbine length gas system 18"= rifle length gas system Do you mean that's the way they come, or that's your preference? Lots of folks have talked about the benefits of mid length gas on a 16 inch barrel -- though I haven't shot one myself, I was lead to believe that if you ARE using a 16 inch barrel for 3 gun (which should be fine with optics -- MAYBE a disadvantage with irons) then midlength gas is what you want, no? I think that it is very well known that the 14.5" barrel is best suited for a carbine gas system and the 16" is best suited for a middy gas. From there it's obviously a rifle gas system. A 16" middy will have a softer recoil impulse than a carbine system and an adjustable gas system on a rifle length upper is the bomb. I think I know the differences since I own all of the different combos (and then some ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Well let,s see. In no particular order. Jerry Miculek 20" barrel, Bruce Piatt 20" barrel, Tony Holmes 20" barrel, Kelly Neal 20" barrel, Daniel Horner 20" barrel, Trapr Swonson 20" barrel, Bennie Cooley 20" barrel, Benny Hill 20" barrle, Ty Gentry 20" barrel, James Darst 20" barrel, Miller brothers both Kurt and Eric 20" barrles, Mike Pinto 20" barrel, Ben Fortin 20" barrel Jerremy Parker 20" barrel, Jeff Cramblit and Taran...Mutants...17-18 ( weirdos! ) But to make up for it Pat Kelley 22" barrel! Chris Shecahtano (sorry amigo that,s the best I got tonight) 20" barrel, Kerry Dematos 20" barrel J.P. of J.P. Enterprises 20" barrel, Chris Anderson 20" barrel, Mr T. 20" barrel....well I could go on quite a while, and I mean no slight to anyone I overlooked, but once again why are you going with a 16-18" barrel?? KurtM Awe what do all those guys know. (Just kidding) I am running a 18 inch barrel now up from the 14.5 I used to have and I have a intermediate gas system (about 1 inch less than a rifle one.) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blurryvisions Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 18 is a perfect fit for me... not to much not to little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) 17" Run what you've got! Edited May 11, 2011 by DyNo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I', not cool enough for 17. Im gettin ready to swap my 16 for an 18. THe DPMS 3G1 barrels are too cheap tp pass up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcatt320 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 If you were dead set on a 16" couldn't you go with knights armament upper. Isn't there gas system between a mid and rifle length. So far it is what I have been using at local 3 gun matches out to 300 yrds. Very soft shooting in my opinion and very light. With that being said I am on the hunt for a 18" or 20" competition only set up after I shot my buddies JP, so go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairmckenzie1 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 ive been pretty happy with my 16. there is a lot more of them out there and are probably cheaper. save the money and practice more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulter6 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I shoot a 18" barrel, but I am now where close to all those named shooters in a previous post and probably never will be. For most of us average guys, 16" or 18" won't make much difference. Try out the different versions and go with the one you feel most comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 16"= carbine length gas system 18"= rifle length gas system Do you mean that's the way they come, or that's your preference? Lots of folks have talked about the benefits of mid length gas on a 16 inch barrel -- though I haven't shot one myself, I was lead to believe that if you ARE using a 16 inch barrel for 3 gun (which should be fine with optics -- MAYBE a disadvantage with irons) then midlength gas is what you want, no? I think that it is very well known that the 14.5" barrel is best suited for a carbine gas system and the 16" is best suited for a middy gas. From there it's obviously a rifle gas system. A 16" middy will have a softer recoil impulse than a carbine system and an adjustable gas system on a rifle length upper is the bomb. I think I know the differences since I own all of the different combos (and then some ) Carbine gas systems were first designed for the the Colt Commando 10.5" guns, which predate the M-4 with its 14.5" barrel. When the military desided they wanted something between the 20" A2 and the Commando it was easier for Colt to adapt the existing gas system onto the new barrels then do the R&D for something new. Just because it was easier didn't mean it was best though. What resulted was a carbine that has been over-gased pretty much since it's inception. This is a big reason why the Army has been through half a dozen iterations of extractor setups on the M-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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